Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Chris Stritzel »

TheUrbanRoo wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:43 pm
moderne wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:34 pm This is a large full block. Two slabs the size of the Lights over a parking podium would fit.
It has to be. Otherwise 700 units is like 50 stories.
Once upon a time, I heard that there was a tall building option here, just not entirely residential. Most who knew about it agreed that it didn't seem possible given the rates needed to justify such a tall building.

Still, 700 units on a full block is a lot. I anticipate each building to not be strictly 350 units each. Yes, I am saying that I expect one building to be bigger than the other.

Kevin Collison mentioned in his article today (https://cityscenekc.com/south-loop-park ... partments/) that the City is offering a parking agreement so that the City owned garage at 12th and Oak can be used instead of new parking needing to be built on the Board of Education site. That's 1400 spaces. If you're a developer, that's a logical move since you wouldn't need to spend the additional tens of millions of dollars to build parking (above or below grade). And you get an additional 700 (or so) spaces for visitors to retail/restaurants on site and to office tenants in the smaller building to be built on the 13th/McGee/12th/Grand block. Regarding that, it sounds like that building would be wedged in between the weed shop and the older office building. Perhaps even wrapping that older building.

Let's pay attention to this development though. It's residential, which Copaken has been chugging along with, and Hunt Midwest is involved. I expect something nice to come out of this.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by FangKC »

I hope the City would make the parking deal contingent on saving the 12th and McGee Building (1212 McGee) under the premise of the City wanting to maintain affordable commercial spaces Downtown.

The widespread practice of demolishing older buildings for new construction and additional space for underground parking has reduced affordable retail spaces. We need small local businesses to be able to operate and not just banks or chains. We are subsidizing new-built projects that have to be priced so high that local businesses cannot afford to rent there.

If there is a need to subsidize affordable housing then why not small service-oriented businesses that residents want or simply make the neighborhood more desirable? They also operate outside of non-compete clauses in leasing used by the Power & Light District that discourage more than one type of business or concept or simply aren't allowed (used bookstores, antique stores).
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by DColeKC »

I doubt we'll ever see that tall building depicted in a rendering from years ago.

When it comes to preserving older buildings to keep commercial leasing rates affordable, I'm not convinced that the age of the building matters significantly. A poorly-maintained building in a prime location will still command high rates. The trend is moving towards downtown areas being expensive, unless you're situated on a less desirable street or far from typical foot traffic.

While I support the preservation of older buildings with historical value, saving them solely because of their age may not always be the most practical decision for their owners.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by bspecht »

Copaken doesn't appear to own 1212 McGee, which looks independently owned by an attorney. Block owns the lots surrounding 1212, which are leased(?) to Sunflower for The Grand parking. Copaken owns west side of the block and lot south of 1222 McGee. 1222 looks to be owned by a brokerage.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by FangKC »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:42 am ...
When it comes to preserving older buildings to keep commercial leasing rates affordable, I'm not convinced that the age of the building matters significantly. A poorly-maintained building in a prime location will still command high rates. The trend is moving towards downtown areas being expensive, unless you're situated on a less desirable street or far from typical foot traffic.

While I support the preservation of older buildings with historical value, saving them solely because of their age may not always be the most practical decision for their owners.
1212 McGee has tenants. This building hasn't in 15 years since it was built. There has already been talk of tearing it down, but I can see there is no practical reason for saving a 15-year-old building. It never seems to have been able to command high leasing rates. At least, 1212 McGee produces property and sales taxes for the City.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.097342 ... entry=ttu
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by atticus23 »

So as I was taking a break from my normal day to day, I stumbled across this development in Atlanta. My question is: could KC do something like this on this site? If I recall The View and The Manhattan were teacher/workforce housing at one point (or I may have made that up and apologies if I did), so it's not unheard of in KC. Why isn't this a model that could be used here? Teachers and school staff personnel would be awesome wins in the DT neighborhoods.

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/down ... round-soon

Before you all rip me a new one, I get financing/demand/risk/etc... as reasons for not having this type of development. I'm curious why something like this hasn't been in the works for KC.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by moderne »

A much smaller teacher housing development at Troost Lake died on the vine recently.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Cratedigger »

https://arkansasadvocate.com/2023/08/21 ... -teachers/

Northwest Arkansas is doing something similar in Bentonville. School district donates land and then developers build property with caps on sale price for teachers.

I think PV and some of the SMSD cities should consider this especially
The proposed project would involve construction of a community center, 50 to 60 multi-family rental units and 20 single-family rental homes on land adjacent to Bentonville High School. Developers would also build 20 single-family homes that could be sold for $180,000 to $200,000.

The average sale price of a home in Bentonville was about $475,000 last year, according to a regional workforce housing center. In July, the median sale price of home in the city was $507,500, according to Realtor.com.

Webster told the board there will be no cost to the district, which can donate the nine acres, six of which are usable because of a floodplain. Webster estimated the project will cost $20 million to $25 million and said the development would be built by Strategic Realty, whose founder and CEO is Sen. Jim Petty, a Republican from Van Buren.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by im2kull »

Isn't it poetic that Kathleen Pointer (KCPS Senior Policy Strategist) is also a KC Tenants Board Member.

https://kctenants.org/about

No wonder KCPS rails against every development seeking incentives. Literally every single one. KCPS = KCT on the policy front.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by bspecht »

KCPS has been against incentives long before KCT was a thing. Not sure what any of that has to do with this project/development site.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by alejandro46 »

It does seem to have to pose an issue in that KCPS completely mismanaged this building resulting in yet another vacant crater downtown while at the same time advocating against any subsidies to help develop this and other vacant craters throughout KC into buildings. It's an example of how they have explicitly caused vacant land while at the same time hindering development of it.

Serious question and not to pick on someone or dox someone, but since she is on a lobbyist group board, I'm just confused how can Kathleen Pointer be a "Policy Strategist" for a publicly funded school district while at the same time be on the board of a union/lobbyiest group working on the exact same policy she is supposed to be working on for KCPS? I can't find a job description, but her "Policy strategy" seems to entail advocating against development subsidies on behalf of KCPS. See here: https://nonprofitquarterly.org/saving-s ... subsidies/

KCT advocates explicitly against development subsidies. Is she advocating for the KCPS as part of KCT, or is she advocating personally? Can she even separate her personal lobbying and that of her employer - the subject of her work and that of KCT seem to overlap significantly/completely?

I'd just be a little nervous if corporate employees were throwing around the KCPS name and affiliation as KCPS employees for the benefit of a lobbyist/union group. It seems to draw the implication that KCPS are explicitly supporting KCTenants.

Look, it may be completely OK what shes doing. You'd have to look at the KCPS code of conduct/employement agreement and hopefully the employee has vetted this outside activity with their legal for approval. Afik there's no explicit prohibition of school districts doing lobbyist activities per see.

It's just a little concerning with the overlap between her job duties, KCT's stated goals and especially how her bio on KCT website explicitly draws about as close of a tie to KCPS as they can to make it to almost blur the line between her advocating on her own behalf and on behalf of KSPS.

I'd, at a minimum, advise her to remove employer references on her KCT bio. What if a similarly situated KCPS employee joined a group like Northland Strong or the Recall Quinton Lucas group and explicitly threw the KCPS name around on those groups to make it seem like KCPS was in favor of recalling Lucas or certain political candidates? I don't think a lot of school parents would be pleased with that.
Kathleen Pointer (she/her) is the Board Outreach Lead for KC Tenants. Her first KC Tenants event was the public launch on City Hall steps when she accompanied Kansas City Public Schools Superintendent Dr. Mark Bedell as he spoke about the chaos evictions inflict on the lives of many KCPS students. On behalf of the School District, Kathleen advocated alongside KC Tenants to pass a Tenant Bill of Rights. Kathleen is the senior public policy strategist and City Hall liaison for Kansas City Public Schools. She focuses on local and statewide initiatives impacting KCPS families, including a particular focus on equity in education, housing, and economic development. In her former life, Kathleen was a journalist.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by FangKC »

It's not that unusual for lobbyists to advocate on behalf of several parties, and parties often with similar goals. If you work as a lobbyist employed by an organization, there are usually no prohibitions to work with other groups during your time off unless there is a clear conflict.

The exception might be working as a political strategist for the Republican National Committee for money, and then in your time off being a political activist for Democratic candidates. Or working for Exxon as a lobbyist, while also volunteering as a strategist for the Sierra Club.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by alejandro46 »

Sure, I get that she is advocating for KCT and KCPS with similar goals, but she's not a third-party lobbyist hired by both the school and KCT in conjunction - she is a KCPS employee. Her role specifically resolves around school public policy initiatives surrounding development incentives while also on the board of another another organization that is directly lobbying in the same exact area.

Who is she shaping policy and advocating for, is it for KCT or KCPS? Yes, the outside political activity is not in direct conflict with KCPS so it would not be as bad as you described, but my point is just that if it were me I would be cautious that her membership does not lead to the appearance that she is on the KCT board on behalf of KCPS unless her board position is explicitly part of her job duties and on behalf of the school.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by bspecht »

Take it to the KCT thread, nothing to do with this.
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

bspecht wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:22 am Take it to the KCT thread, nothing to do with this.
Agreed, here: https://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?t=2126 ... &start=320
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Re: Old KCPS HQ - 12th & McGee

Post by im2kull »

bspecht wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:22 am Take it to the KCT thread, nothing to do with this.
Pointer and her KCPS/KCT connection has everything to do with this. We now have a dirt lot, and a demolished 10 story structure, that was entirely, 100% owned and operated by KCPS.. that could have seen a reuse into housing. It happened on her watch, without a peep. I find that astonishing. She's supposedly represents KCPS and seems to be fiercely vocal at every meeting she attends, yet she didn't help to save this building? Why not? Why was the KCPS HQ sold off and reduced to rubble?
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