Downtown Baseball Stadium

[moderne]

54 pages of tedium, any more is worthless until somebody, somebody, in the Royals, the county or the city says something.

[KCPowercat]

Fenway and Wrigley both have views. The upper deck of Fenway has an awesome view of back bay. Regardless, both those parks are in built out neighborhoods, something EV will never be. So it wouldn't matter as much if there are no views. But to not have a view nor be in a neighborhood?

Well that's not very urban planner of you. EV is 2000 feet away from the streetcar and it can never be built out? There isn't much hope for any location if that's the case. I thought it was posted earlier that the stadium shouldn't go there because it WOULD be built out with a better idea?

Yeah, a tram that goes 20mph and runs every 15 minutes is a half mile away. I mean, EV is going to be battery park! Come on.

There are like 10,000 places that would be more ideal to develop first in the downtown and crossroads areas. And it's not like large projects have really been built right on the streetcar line. A few have been proposed, but nothing but small five over ones and tiny office buildings have been built. And yet people think 25 story buildings are going to go up in EV.

The streetcar is what it is. It's fine, but if you are moving downtown to be near transit, I don't think EV is really all that great of an option. And don't tell me the transit center over there makes a difference.

And I said it would build out once the owners realize that they are not going to get Denver prices for the land and nobody is going to build 30 story apartment and hotel towers everywhere over there. It will develop as it should, a neighborhood of cheap five over ones once the prices are right and if they are not right the lots will sit empty, just at they have been waiting to cash in on that big development that they have been waiting for.

There is just nothing what so ever that indicates that substantial development will occur in the EV. Any development in KC in the next 25 years will be in the same places that have proposals now such as such of 670, down by the Freight house District and random lots in the crossroads.

Otherwise all you are doing is simply building a stadium over there to fill the hole. It will not be an activated urban area. There is a chance to at least have a ballpark that is interwoven into the urban fabric of KC in the CR. Pedestrians around it all the time, retail at its street level and around it that is open all the time etc.

So a stadium in the EV wouldn't be an activated urban area. Let's drop that same stadium in an area that IS an activated urban area. Makes sense to me!

Changing streetcar to "tram" just to diminish is is below you Grid.

[Highlander]

The view from the East Village aren't even bad. Our City Hall is one of the most beautiful towers downtown. You would also see 909 Walnut which is another beauty.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1017865 ... ?entry=ttu

The Crossroads site did have nice view of our city a decade ago. I think the new Light towers have really ruined that view. When Messenger first opened, the roof deck had views that were really impressive looking North. You got a great skyline view with a tapestry of materials, styles, massing etc. Now it's all blocked with a boring wall of glass.

I'm not saying those towers ruined downtown. I'm glad they exist. I just think they removed the 'looming big city' feel from the North Crossroads and
now that view is much less interesting.

Would you even see any of these views from inside the ballpark though? Because the home plate side of the park would be on the west side of the stadium, there would be extremely limited views of any of these building from inside any EV stadium. All you will see in that direction are the stands behind home plate. The primary view would be towards the east or SE across the outfield to keep the sun out of the batter's eyes during evening games. It's not that you cannot see downtown from East Village, it's that you would not necessarily see downtown from inside a new stadium in East Village. It's one of the bigger drawbacks of that location.

[KCPowercat]

The view from the East Village aren't even bad. Our City Hall is one of the most beautiful towers downtown. You would also see 909 Walnut which is another beauty.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1017865 ... ?entry=ttu

The Crossroads site did have nice view of our city a decade ago. I think the new Light towers have really ruined that view. When Messenger first opened, the roof deck had views that were really impressive looking North. You got a great skyline view with a tapestry of materials, styles, massing etc. Now it's all blocked with a boring wall of glass.

I'm not saying those towers ruined downtown. I'm glad they exist. I just think they removed the 'looming big city' feel from the North Crossroads and
now that view is much less interesting.

Would you even see any of these views from inside the ballpark though? Because the home plate side of the park would be on the west side of the stadium, there would be extremely limited views of any of these building from inside any EV stadium. All you will see in that direction are the stands behind home plate. The primary view would be towards the east or SE across the outfield to keep the sun out of the batter's eyes during evening games. It's not that you cannot see downtown from East Village, it's that you would not necessarily see downtown from inside a new stadium in East Village. It's one of the bigger drawbacks of that location.

yet it's not important. Switch the spots. P&L and Tmobile are where EV is and the big blank area is where the Star building is. Are the crossroads fans now picking crossroads site? That tells you how important the "view" is. I'm tired of typing view though so I'll bounce on the topic.

[Highlander]

The view from the East Village aren't even bad. Our City Hall is one of the most beautiful towers downtown. You would also see 909 Walnut which is another beauty.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1017865 ... ?entry=ttu

The Crossroads site did have nice view of our city a decade ago. I think the new Light towers have really ruined that view. When Messenger first opened, the roof deck had views that were really impressive looking North. You got a great skyline view with a tapestry of materials, styles, massing etc. Now it's all blocked with a boring wall of glass.

I'm not saying those towers ruined downtown. I'm glad they exist. I just think they removed the 'looming big city' feel from the North Crossroads and
now that view is much less interesting.

Would you even see any of these views from inside the ballpark though? Because the home plate side of the park would be on the west side of the stadium, there would be extremely limited views of any of these building from inside any EV stadium. All you will see in that direction are the stands behind home plate. The primary view would be towards the east or SE across the outfield to keep the sun out of the batter's eyes during evening games. It's not that you cannot see downtown from East Village, it's that you would not necessarily see downtown from inside a new stadium in East Village. It's one of the bigger drawbacks of that location.

yet it's not important. Switch the spots. P&L and Tmobile are where EV is and the big blank area is where the Star building is. Are the crossroads fans now picking crossroads site? That tells you how important the "view" is. I'm tired of typing view though so I'll bounce on the topic.

I'd say a view of downtown from inside the stadium is at least a "nice to have". It may or may not be a deal breaker but it's certainly an asset (see Minneapolis). I'd be happy with either location as long as the stadium is built downtown. Both locations are better than the status quo and both have compelling arguments in their favor.


https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9818329 ... ?entry=ttu

[Midtownkid]

Right Field views could be fantastic.

Yes, the view was great there BEFORE the boring Light buildings were built. Show is the real view!

[TheLastGentleman]

Yes, the view was great there BEFORE the boring Light buildings were built. Show is the real view!

[moderne]

Wouldn't the western elevation of the left field stands block the view of anything west of Grand?

[GRID]

So a stadium in the EV wouldn't be an activated urban area. Let's drop that same stadium in an area that IS an activated urban area. Makes sense to me!

Changing streetcar to "tram" just to diminish is is below you Grid.

That's exactly what I am saying. Enhance an area that is or has the potential to be an activated urban area. The stadium alone won't get it done.

That's why stadiums in LoDo, Gaslamp and Navy Yard became integral parts of neighborhoods that are active all the time and urban areas grew toward the stadiums. Growth didn't start at those stadiums either.

If you look at Baltimore, the stadium did nothing. It was placed in an area similar to the EV to try and redirect growth and investment to the west. Didn't work.

Camden Yards is similar to EV. As amazing as Camden Yards is and technically close to the CBD, it's isolated, surrounded by highways, big roads and the convention center with rough residential areas to the west and most people drive to its surrounding parking lots and go home. Some tourists might walk over to the inner harbor, but it's not really a thing most people do.

Very similar to EV which is also surrounded by highways, the dead zone of the gov buildings and rough areas to the east which are not currently gentrifying.

I'm not saying Camden yards should have been built in Little Italy, Harbor East or Fells Point. Those areas were far more built up even in the 90's than KC's east crossroads so there is was no room. I'm simply trying to show that ballparks do not do anything as far as creating a neighborhood. Camden yards is amazing though and the ballpark alone makes up for the location. The warehouse, Eutaw Street, the views, having a light rail stop at the stadium etc. Is KC going to get that with a new stadium in EV? Maybe they will, I don't know.

My point is KC is one of the few cities that has a chance to build one of the most urban and activated modern ballparks in the country by going with the crossroads. I don't know if the city/royals can pull it off without doing more damage than good, but if done right, it could be amazing. That's all I'm saying.

And the tram thing? What? I constantly mix up tram and streetcar when talking about any modern system like that. It's natural for me to use "tram" because that's what I'm used to. I have used tram systems all over the world and that's what they are called all over the world. I guess North America likes to call them streetcars (Toronto does too), but for the past several years, all I have used are trams in Europe, Australia, Asia etc and they are all called trams.

And if you think calling them trams is to diminish them, then you have never been to Zurich, Amsterdam, Melbourne, Sydney or really any decent sized city overseas because trust me, their trams are far superior to any American tram system. The only time I ride a tram in the USA is when I go to KC. I rarely use them even when I go to Cincy, Milwaukee, Portland, Seattle etc. because there is no need to. They are not comprehensive enough to use as a visitor like they are overseas. So I'm used to calling them trams since that's what they are called where I use them.

It's just a habit. I like KC's tram system. It's probably the best in one in the USA right now. But it's not really even doing what it should be doing for Main Street, so I'm not sure it's going to be an integral part of what happens in the EV. The bottom line is KC might feel like it's growing fast, but it's just not a fast growing city. It's way better than it was in the 90's for sure.

I just think the EV building up into a big dense neighborhood surrounding a ballpark it a complete pipe dream. It might be possible in a city that has 30 tower cranes up and every little part of the city is quickly developing, but KC is not one of those cities. So the east crossroads is worth any risk IMO.

Once again, if it goes to EV, it's fine. I just hope the ballpark itself has a huge "wow factor" to make up for the location. Regardless, it will be better than the current location which is quickly deteriorating from just a bad location to flat out embarrassing.

[DColeKC]

54 pages of tedium, any more is worthless until somebody, somebody, in the Royals, the county or the city says something.

We're not solving world hunger here, this is a forum for enthusiast. If we just sit around and only discuss when official information is released, than might as well let the site go dormant.

[DColeKC]

Right Field views could be fantastic.

Yes, the view was great there BEFORE the boring Light buildings were built. Show is the real view!

The real view is in the drawings I put together which clearly show both the "boring" light buildings. I guess if you think blocking the Hilton President really ruins anything, sure, they ruined the view.

[DColeKC]

Wouldn't the western elevation of the left field stands block the view of anything west of Grand?

Only speculation but from the conversations I've had, they could really open up that portion of the stadium or go with much lower seating sections along the outfield wall like many modern stadiums. The conceptual renderings they put out for the EV site didn't have the upper deck going past the left field foul poll which would really offer great views with a north oriented stadium.

The views from sitting along the 3rd base line would feature the best views of downtown though.

[GRID]

From the ground, the light towers do block the view of the skyline, but from most seats of the stadium itself, the views of downtown should be quite impressive.

[DColeKC]

From the ground, the light towers do block the view of the skyline, but from most seats of the stadium itself, the views of downtown should be quite impressive.

For sure and I'm not suggesting they don't from the ground level.

[KCPowercat]

I'm all in on Camden. Loved the location. EV for me. I don't care to walk around a baseball stadium empty 280 days a year in a super block in an active urban area. It's the same reason the back side of T-Mobile is still dead. It kills the vibe.

[DColeKC]

I'm all in on Camden. Loved the location. EV for me. I don't care to walk around a baseball stadium empty 280 days a year in a super block in an active urban area. It's the same reason the back side of T-Mobile is still dead. It kills the vibe.

Even if the ground level exterior of the stadium features retail that's open all year long?


Even if it didn't have retail open all year, this area wouldn't change much compared to the activity we currently see. The most activity happening along Grand are strippers coming and going, police showing up to tavern disturbances and people picking up their dry cleaning.

When we going to stop pretending this section of EC is so great? I literally look at this area from my living room window, it's not "vibrant".

[TheBigChuckbowski]

The most activity happening along Grand are strippers coming and going, police showing up to tavern disturbances and people picking up their dry cleaning.

Jesus, dude. There are four restaurants, a salon, a bar that's an institution, etc just on one block of what you want to tear down. If you can't support your opinions without posting complete nonsense lies then stop.

[bspecht]

When we going to stop pretending this section of EC is so great? I literally look at this area from my living room window, it's not "vibrant".

Google, collecting (& measuring against) nearly all human dwell time activity in the world, appears to disagree.

It seems you have a quite different view of urban environments & connectivity than many others here, that's ok, but I don't think you're going to change our minds.

[DColeKC]

The most activity happening along Grand are strippers coming and going, police showing up to tavern disturbances and people picking up their dry cleaning.

Jesus, dude. There are four restaurants, a salon, a bar that's an institution, etc just on one block of what you want to tear down. If you can't support your opinions without posting complete nonsense lies then stop.

Oh, sorry dude. Didn't know we were litigating in a court of law here. I said what I said.

[moderne]

Frank White vetos sales tax ballot. County legislature unlikely to over ride.