DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:05 pm
How much parking do we consider was built for P&L/T-Mobile? That's the KC requirement for an "entertainment district". We forget that this area has suburban parking minimums (the requirements were only eliminated in the loop and in the Crossroads for two blocks on either side of Main). Yes, T-Mobile is in the loop but they did it anyway because KC.
You will lose another block or two for parking, guaranteed.
JUST THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE.
Garage under Kansas City live.
Garage under H&R Block
Garage under same block dedicated to Hilton President
Garage for grocery store, One Light.
Two light
Three light.
All are used heavily.
Outside of the parking garage attached to one light, all other parking garages are either underground or feature ground level retail.
As I mentioned, the city could and should demand new parking garages have ground level retail and an exterior finish that blends into the surrounding neighborhoods. That spot directly east of the arena is begging for parking garages.
Maybe there will be new residential towers with mega podiums. Parking for residents on upper levels,ball park visitors lower. There could be parking podiums equal in height to the building that sits on them.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:35 pm
I get it, we've got a lot of PNL haters on here, mostly because it's not your thing personally but let's at least try to be honest about it.
I don’t really understand where comments like this come from. I know you weren’t around the board when P&L was announced and built out, but everyone was ecstatic! We literally talked for days about Flying Saucer and 801 Chophouer and Kill Sevil Club. No one talks bad about P&L. We do wish maybe there was a stronger local presence to bring a more Kansas City vibe or don’t understand why you build out a retail shell in probably the most prime location and then don’t complete it, but P&L has brought an entirely new demographic downtown that wasn’t coming downtown before. They do great with suburbanites and are a great complement to TMobile. Huge win for the city and Cordish alike. They made a great deal and deservedly so. There was nothing much down here before.
I don't really see any hate for the P&L district either. KCpowercat has mentioned it, but not in a negative way other than closing of Grand etc. which I agree with.
I think people are sensitive to having so much of Downtown controlled by a corporate entity, but I also think most people realize that Cordish is the only company that has really put in the effort. And while they have put in the effort, it makes sense to ask questions about how and why they do and don't lease retail space etc.
I think a lot of it is frustration. If Downtown had more active players to build a more diverse development scene downtown, people probably wouldn't lash out as much about Cordish. They kind of become the scapegoat because everybody else just sits on parking lots so the P&L district is the only development where people can really be critical of.
But I think everybody knows how important the P&L has been to downtown KC. I agree, if no P&L, downtown KC is probably at least another 10 years behind where it is now.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:35 pm
I get it, we've got a lot of PNL haters on here, mostly because it's not your thing personally but let's at least try to be honest about it.
I don’t really understand where comments like this come from. I know you weren’t around the board when P&L was announced and built out, but everyone was ecstatic! We literally talked for days about Flying Saucer and 801 Chophouer and Kill Sevil Club. No one talks bad about P&L. We do wish maybe there was a stronger local presence to bring a more Kansas City vibe or don’t understand why you build out a retail shell in probably the most prime location and then don’t complete it, but P&L has brought an entirely new demographic downtown that wasn’t coming downtown before. They do great with suburbanites and are a great complement to TMobile. Huge win for the city and Cordish alike. They made a great deal and deservedly so. There was nothing much down here before.
I think it comes from the consistent and often subtle comments from a few folks on here. I mean one person responded indicating downtown would be where it's at if not better off without P&L. I did lurk here for years and years before signing on, I can't think that long back to what the vibe was like but I will take your word for it.
I'm just too personally connected to P&L from before a shovel hit dirt, to when it opened to being just a resident these days. Can't get out of my own way sometimes.
I know this topic is about the baseball stadium, so I won't get too far into it but I think 2024 will be a big year for new tenants. I've been told a few currently empty spaces are done deals and that famous corner pad site that's never been leased is being aggressively marketed. Outside of any major economic issues, it truly sounds like the entire district will be leased up in 2024 or early 2025.
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:05 pm
How much parking do we consider was built for P&L/T-Mobile? That's the KC requirement for an "entertainment district". We forget that this area has suburban parking minimums (the requirements were only eliminated in the loop and in the Crossroads for two blocks on either side of Main). Yes, T-Mobile is in the loop but they did it anyway because KC.
You will lose another block or two for parking, guaranteed.
JUST THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE.
Garage under Kansas City live.
Garage under H&R Block
Garage under same block dedicated to Hilton President
Garage for grocery store, One Light.
Two light
Three light.
All are used heavily.
Outside of the parking garage attached to one light, all other parking garages are either underground or feature ground level retail.
As I mentioned, the city could and should demand new parking garages have ground level retail and an exterior finish that blends into the surrounding neighborhoods. That spot directly east of the arena is begging for parking garages.
You made his point. More will be needed for a 30k stadium and they won't be underground. That's a lot of additional damage and tear downs
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:05 pm
How much parking do we consider was built for P&L/T-Mobile? That's the KC requirement for an "entertainment district". We forget that this area has suburban parking minimums (the requirements were only eliminated in the loop and in the Crossroads for two blocks on either side of Main). Yes, T-Mobile is in the loop but they did it anyway because KC.
You will lose another block or two for parking, guaranteed.
JUST THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE.
Garage under Kansas City live.
Garage under H&R Block
Garage under same block dedicated to Hilton President
Garage for grocery store, One Light.
Two light
Three light.
All are used heavily.
Outside of the parking garage attached to one light, all other parking garages are either underground or feature ground level retail.
As I mentioned, the city could and should demand new parking garages have ground level retail and an exterior finish that blends into the surrounding neighborhoods. That spot directly east of the arena is begging for parking garages.
You made his point. More will be needed for a 30k stadium and they won't be underground. That's a lot of additional damage and tear downs
I wasn’t trying to prove anything, just answered the question and I’ve not argued that more parking won’t be needed. The only thing I’ve disagreed with is the idea that some existing buildings will be torn down in favor of surface parking lots because the math don’t math.
I keep tossing out the surface lots east of t-mobile because they’ll be somewhat hidden in there. The 6 or 8 blocks directly east of locust is already around 35% surface parking.
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:45 am
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
Wonder why that location was never really in the running?
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:45 am
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
Wonder why that location was never really in the running?
Because it doesn't have anything similar to the only thing that people seemingly want out of this chase and that's having even just a sliver of what the view from Liberty Memorial overlooking downtown is.
If we're going to ignore all the other sites due to the want of this view, just tear down the IRS building and move them to EV.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:45 am
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
Wonder why that location was never really in the running?
Because it doesn't have anything similar to the only thing that people seemingly want out of this chase and that's having even just a sliver of what the view from Liberty Memorial overlooking downtown is.
If we're going to ignore all the other sites due to the want of this view, just tear down the IRS building and move them to EV.
Where are you getting this idea that the view of the stadium from Liberty Memorial matters to anyone? I've never heard anyone close to the project express this concern and I think they could honestly care less.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:45 am
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
Wonder why that location was never really in the running?
Because it doesn't have anything similar to the only thing that people seemingly want out of this chase and that's having even just a sliver of what the view from Liberty Memorial overlooking downtown is.
If we're going to ignore all the other sites due to the want of this view, just tear down the IRS building and move them to EV.
That can't be it. EV by far would have the worst views. The views overlooking the river market would be neat and the views from the concourses looking south over downtown would be amazing from the north loop.
But as much as I would like to have a view, it's not a huge deal. I just think pretty much all the views from the EV would be terrible, especially out to the east loop highway.
What I meant was the entire process has felt like it's been driven by what people perceive to be good & would look good rather than taking the biggest shot at something unique & new in the city where we never take big chances. Everyone is obsessed with the view looking good towards downtown rather than building around the stadium to make new views instead.
EV is absolutely the highest risk/highest reward site & that's why I'll always be for it over CR. I want ambition, I don't want a place that disrupts a neighborhood & is just the same as it is in other cities.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:45 am
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
Agreed. I would put North Loop and Washington Square Park (if we can squeeze a stadium between Grand and Oak, we can squeeze a stadium between Main and Grand) head and shoulders above East Village or East Crossroads.
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:58 am
What I meant was the entire process has felt like it's been driven by what people perceive to be good & would look good rather than taking the biggest shot at something unique & new in the city where we never take big chances. Everyone is obsessed with the view looking good towards downtown rather than building around the stadium to make new views instead.
EV is absolutely the highest risk/highest reward site & that's why I'll always be for it over CR. I want ambition, I don't want a place that disrupts a neighborhood & is just the same as it is in other cities.
This is where I respectfully disagree.
East village is the layup. It’s easy. It’s a big empty unimaginative space. It would be Truman sports complex 2.0 with a stadium and parking lots. Views would 100% need to be created which is a long shot of happening but if it did, it would take a decade or more to happen.
East Crossroads is the ambitious plan. It’s in some ways more complicated but has the potential to become a part of a vibrant area on opening day. The stadium can built to have views when it opens of the progress and history our city already has.
Views from the stadium out are important. Fans have been looking at an interstate for 50 years with The K.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:45 am
This stadium should have been in North Loop. Close the highway and fill it with parking garages easily accessible from the highway system, restore the street grid to the River Market, tear down one ugly Flash Cube building for a tightknit stadium and kill a bunch of birds with one stone.
Agreed. I would put North Loop and Washington Square Park (if we can squeeze a stadium between Grand and Oak, we can squeeze a stadium between Main and Grand) head and shoulders above East Village or East Crossroads.
Those sits do nothing positive for the Royals, fans or the city. It would have been just another disjointed development slightly out if walking distance to the other downtown assets baseball fans will be interested in.
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:58 am
What I meant was the entire process has felt like it's been driven by what people perceive to be good & would look good rather than taking the biggest shot at something unique & new in the city where we never take big chances. Everyone is obsessed with the view looking good towards downtown rather than building around the stadium to make new views instead.
EV is absolutely the highest risk/highest reward site & that's why I'll always be for it over CR. I want ambition, I don't want a place that disrupts a neighborhood & is just the same as it is in other cities.
This is where I respectfully disagree.
East village is the layup. It’s easy. It’s a big empty unimaginative space. It would be Truman sports complex 2.0 with a stadium and parking lots. Views would 100% need to be created which is a long shot of happening but if it did, it would take a decade or more to happen.
East Crossroads is the ambitious plan. It’s in some ways more complicated but has the potential to become a part of a vibrant area on opening day. The stadium can built to have views when it opens of the progress and history our city already has.
Views from the stadium out are important. Fans have been looking at an interstate for 50 years with The K.
Views maybe the least important part of this stadium.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:12 pm
East village is the layup. It’s easy. It’s a big empty unimaginative space. It would be Truman sports complex 2.0 with a stadium and parking lots.
But that's not what the team showed.
Most developers would kill for an empty space like that, including Cordish for the cleared South Loop that became P&L (after decades of holding and decaying for a master developer -- exactly the condition that East Village is in now).
