Downtown Baseball Stadium

[TheBigChuckbowski]

The tax revenue from a stadium would be so much greater than what the city and citizens are getting now it's likely not even comparable. The stadium would have a much larger web of positive impact to the area than existing businesses in this area. It's very hard to argue that a baseball stadium in this location wouldn't be better for taxpayers and the cities coffers than what's already there.

Let's do some basic math here:

Crossroads site = Baseball Stadium - Local Crossroads Businesses and Functional Real Estate
EV site = Baseball Stadium + Local Crossroads Businesses and Functional Real Estate + Whatever Additional Development the Royals may or may not build - Acres upon Acres of surface parking

As for the voters who are opposed, they don't care about the physical location. They're opposed regardless. I see no major pushback on a larger scale over the exact area. Those same people are opposed because they're opposed to any change that they deem a inconvenience to them.

I'm a voter that would be a supporter of the EV site and a hell no on the Crossroads site. So there's that.

Downtown losing a U-haul store, tire changing place and some businesses they've never heard of just won't mean much to them.

And P&L's just a bunch of shitty bars. Let's build it there.

[dnweava]

I think the newest x-roads plan is winning me over as it addressed my 2 major complaints of closing Oak and demolishing the storefronts on Grand.

Star site is less disruptive to street grid as 16th is already cut off by both the star bldg and 71 highway, and locust isn't a highly used street. closer to streetcar. (essentially 1300ft walk vs 2000 from nearest stop to edge of stadium sites)

I don't like how many of the old style skinny lot buildings would be lost but none of the buildings are especially architecturally unique or important, losing the suburban style firestone tire building, some of the 1970s looking single story office buildings, and some surface lots isn't exactly anything valuable lost and many of the small businesses could easily relocate into any of tons of vacant office/storefronts in the downtown area. Star site probably does a better job of pushing new development east also, as everything between Cherry and Campbell is ripe for redevelopment while I don't think the EV site will actually cause much additional development as it will push up to the highway meaning any 3rd party development would have to be done over in the paseo west area which I don't see happening. I think it's far more likely that we would see the star site generate hotels/apartment construction at 17th/Holmes vs the EV generating a new hotel at 9th/Troost.

[moderne]

Crossroads site to me just seems like the owners of the Star press bldng wanting desperately to unload their unwise investment. Now realizing that building over 670 would be costly and complicated they have moved ballpark footprint a block south and a block east. KC has such a "pressing" need for an indoor golf course DT and a games arcade. Crossroads ball park on Oak versus EV at Cherry is only 2 skinny blocks difference from street car.

[DaveKCMO]

Since we're in the midst of collecting signatures for the CID, I'd be happy to share how much tax revenue would be lost by converting East Crossroads businesses to public ownership (almost certainly the case with a ballpark). Since property tax jurisdictions don't all receive sales tax revenue (KCPS, KCPL, MCC) there will definitely be losers unless TSC converts to private ownership and pays taxes.

Meanwhile, most of East Village is already in public ownership or is not paying taxes as part of the UR designation.

[DaveKCMO]

Crossroads ball park on Oak versus EV at Cherry is only 2 skinny blocks difference from street car.

This.

Not to mention the intentional disregard of the new East Village Transit Center across from the EV site that has bus routes serving the entire region (rather than just downtown/midtown for streetcar).

[dnweava]

Crossroads site to me just seems like the owners of the Star press bldng wanting desperately to unload their unwise investment. Now realizing that building over 670 would be costly and complicated they have moved ballpark footprint a block south and a block east. KC has such a "pressing" need for an indoor golf course DT and a games arcade. Crossroads ball park on Oak versus EV at Cherry is only 2 skinny blocks difference from street car.

2 skinny blocks with a massive grade change. It's an 80ft uphill climb going from Main up to Mcgee on 9th.

[dnweava]

Crossroads ball park on Oak versus EV at Cherry is only 2 skinny blocks difference from street car.

This.

Not to mention the intentional disregard of the new East Village Transit Center across from the EV site that has bus routes serving the entire region (rather than just downtown/midtown for streetcar).

the transit center is still pretty close the the x-roads location, only 1600ft away, vs 800ft from the EV site. very short walk to either one but also not a reasonable way to get to/from games as they don't run late enough while the streetcar runs late.

For a 7pm weekday start, games will last to between 10-10:30. The last 229 bus leaves the transit center at at 9:47 which means if you live in Platte co you can't take the bus home. They better plan on adding later bus times or else it's a pointless conversation as you can't take the bus home after a game.

[DaveKCMO]

Here's the thing about buses... running more of them later on existing routes just takes a few extra shekels and will not run afoul of federal charter regulations (which is why we no longer have the Chiefs/Royals express routes -- which were beloved AND buses!). The route already existing in every direction. No walk to Main Street required.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Crossroads site to me just seems like the owners of the Star press bldng wanting desperately to unload their unwise investment. Now realizing that building over 670 would be costly and complicated they have moved ballpark footprint a block south and a block east. KC has such a "pressing" need for an indoor golf course DT and a games arcade. Crossroads ball park on Oak versus EV at Cherry is only 2 skinny blocks difference from street car.

2 skinny blocks with a massive grade change. It's an 80ft uphill climb going from Main up to Mcgee on 9th.

Have you seen how many people regularly climb the stairs to Liberty Memorial? Heart disease is one of the highest causes of death annually for Americans, an 80ft elevation change is something a large number of people around here could use.

[dnweava]

Here's the thing about buses... running more of them later on existing routes just takes a few extra shekels and will not run afoul of federal charter regulations (which is why we no longer have the Chiefs/Royals express routes -- which were beloved AND buses!). The route already existing in every direction. No walk to Main Street required.

I've never heard of this charter rule before. So busses systems that receive federal funding can't have "event routes"? So if they wanted to add a 10:15 and 11pm bus for example, would that have to be year round, or could those extra bus times be only on gamedays?.

I 100% support adding later busses. especially if that gets drunk drivers leaving games off the road. I still don't understand why that route doesn't run later since it goes to the airport.

[WoodDraw]

I used to live over there for a couple years, and the elevation change is fine. If they do develop it though, the city is going to haver to start enforcing winter rules because it can get treacherous.

I remember walking down to cvs and getting stuck in ice and finally just sat down and slid until i got out. Not so much into salting on that hill.

Also not disability friendly.

Which is just to say they would need to make street improvements connecting main to east village but they need to anyway.

[KCDowntown]

Joint statement from the Royals and the Chiefs:

https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1743392163235307889

The Chiefs and Royals both posted this on their Twitter accounts.

KCDowntown

[TheUrbanRoo]

I just read it. Does this mean they’ve come to an agreement with Jackson Co and it’s ready to head to the voters?

[Sani]

Seems like an odd thing to drop at 4pm on a Friday, unless they're trying to bury it.

[AllThingsKC]

If this is such a good thing, why would they want it buried?

[bspecht]

Looks like a winner to me. I'm sure plenty of questions will come by Monday. Let's start the public pushing for East Village.

[DColeKC]

The tax revenue from a stadium would be so much greater than what the city and citizens are getting now it's likely not even comparable. The stadium would have a much larger web of positive impact to the area than existing businesses in this area. It's very hard to argue that a baseball stadium in this location wouldn't be better for taxpayers and the cities coffers than what's already there.

And P&L's just a bunch of shitty bars. Let's build it there.

You know, that's such a good idea which is just the standard from you. Constant flow of phenomenal ideas, always delivered with kindness, intelligence and sincerity.

My point remains, the area of the crossroads this would impact isn't that active. It's not as if anyone is proposing they demolish anything historical or a vibrant, high producing area. I understand some people don't like anything that's active removed period but I'm trying to think about this in 25 years when none of these buildings will be there anyway. As downtown continues to develop, areas like the one we are discussing will be bought up one parcel at a time, buildings demolished in favor of more modern structures that are more efficient and can produce more profit per square foot. I think settling for East Village just because it's available right now is short-sighted. I'd like to see it developed and I think it will once a baseball stadium is off the table but at the same time, it's in a location that doesn't really hurt my feelings by being empty. I like density and I'd much prefer smaller empty lots be filled like the one at 13th and Grand before these larger plots.

I understand you're being facetious with your PNL comment but we wouldn't even be discussing this downtown baseball stadium without it. Glad someone built the PNL neighborhood with all those shitty bars so we can all bitch and moan in here about being alive to see a new baseball stadium built in downtown Kansas City.

[DColeKC]

Joint statement from the Royals and the Chiefs:

https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/1743392163235307889

The Chiefs and Royals both posted this on their Twitter accounts.

KCDowntown

This is great! It shows both teams are still unified and in this together. They finally addressed the fact that this isn't asking for a new tax but a continuation. It also confirms NKC is dead as we all knew and that both teams are willing to pay up to stay in Jackson Country.

Best news we've seen on this in weeks.

[Rusty Irish]

Jason Withington 36m
@jhwkcmo
@Royals call both #ClayCounty and #NKC this morning to let us know they've put all the chips in on the #KCStar building. Apparently, #KCMO has made the team a sizable offer and is willing to backstop the bonds. But not all KCMO council members have been briefed

[beautyfromashes]

Jason Withington 36m
@jhwkcmo
@Royals call both #ClayCounty and #NKC this morning to let us know they've put all the chips in on the #KCStar building. Apparently, #KCMO has made the team a sizable offer and is willing to backstop the bonds. But not all KCMO council members have been briefed

Star building's a hard no for me. My guess is there's enough other urban voters that feel the same way that when combined with the suburbs no vote, this thing fails. Flames.