Downtown Baseball Stadium

[dukuboy1]

My point with TMobile is arena was built basically in tandem with P&L. It was the catalyst to spark the development. New baseball stadium in EV will be catalyst for the East side of downtown and south from there to the eastern edge of Crossroads. We need to look at it as creating a new unique area of downtown, a district unique but part of a complete downtown tapestry. Let the Crossroads be the Crossroads & continue its development, which it did on its own without an anchor facility. Let it continue to develop organically & not ruin its progress by squeezing a stadium in it to make it become something else.

I’d prefer to continue to add new districts, neighborhoods if you will. Riverfront, River Market, Downtown, Crossroads, Crown Center,Union Hill, Hospital Hill, Becan Hill, West Bottoms, Westside/SW Blvd. Let’s grow districts & downtown has a perfect spot in the EV to fill up the East side of downtown which has sat empty for 25 yrs, just waiting for its turn. It’s time…

[WoodDraw]

I think Sprint center and power and light are a useful comparison, and also a reason to look at it as a neighborhood and not a sports thing.

The royals won't make a neighborhood, but they can contribute to it. The neighborhood comes first and the sports after.

They need to be an anchor tenant, not the destination.

[Rusty Irish]

Bob Fescoe
@bobfescoe
Just spoke to a stadium insider I am told its looking more & more likely that both the Royals & Chiefs will be leaving Jackson County. I am told BOTH teams are beyond frustrated w the county at this time. "We're FUC#ED" is the quote I was given. We're=Jackson County
@610SportsKC

Bob Fescoe
@bobfescoe
More on the stadium saga tomorrow morning on
@610SportsKC

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I doubt there’s much weight there, but pretending that a Kansas option hasn’t been at least casually explored is also not realistic. I doubt they’re heavily pursuing it, but I don’t doubt it’s being weighed as an eventual option.

[KCDowntown]

If anyone wants to let the Jackson County Executive Board know how you feel on the subject of the Royals in Jackson County, here's their email addresses (Top one is Frank White)...

countyexecutive@jacksongov.org,
dmcgee@jacksongov.org,
mmarshall@jacksongov.org,
JAnderson@jacksongov.org,
dpeyton@jacksongov.org,
mabarca@jacksongov.org,
vhuskey@jacksongov.org,
cfranklin@jacksongov.org,
jlauer@jacksongov.org,
sesmith@jacksongov.org

KCDowntown

[Metro]

Guy, a finalized plan hasn’t even been presented to the public. An organized marketing plan hasn’t even been released. A final site hasn’t even been selected. Not sure how there can be no support for a plan that hasn’t been presented yet.

If you mean there’s strong “save the K” momentum on social media, I’d won’t agree with you. But we’ve learned over and over again that social media angst doesn’t always mean a project doesn’t have support.

The reality I’m living in is messy with a sloppy job by the royals from the start but the reality is there’s more happening now behind the scenes than ever before.

I’d expect a more formal announcement about EV or EC in the coming weeks. Most likely after the new year.

Again my company has ran private polling on this and it polls very very poorly among Jackson Co voters. There's a reason why other sites are being looked at and it's not to drive up the price because there's not really the huge demand for the Royals like you pretend there is.

I think the point he’s more so making is that it’s hard to poll something when there still isn’t a coordinated push to win over the voting demographic on the project yet because the Royals are still deciding the site. I’m not going to speak for DCole though, but that’s what I gathered from his responses thus far.

Do you have any links to these polls by chance?

We have nothing public yet. TBH the Frank White thing really put a wrench in this he single handily might have killed downtown baseball..

[Metro]

If either team moves to Kansas, I'm done with KC. I will never give two shits about the city again. Mark this post...

You shouldn't anyway. It's an extremely poorly ran city.

[GRID]

I doubt there’s much weight there, but pretending that a Kansas option hasn’t been at least casually explored is also not realistic. I doubt they’re heavily pursuing it, but I don’t doubt it’s being weighed as an eventual option.

You need to be more realistic. I think there is a very good chance the Chiefs end up in Kansas if Jackson County can not get their heads out of their ass and most people will probably follow the Chiefs to a KS side stadium. I don't think it matters much where they play if they don't do a super stadium closer to downtown (like NKC or Paseo West). My problem with them going to KS is how much KCMO has already lost to Kansas. I think losing the pro teams would just be too much and my KCMO pride would take such a big hit that I won't want to even think about the city anymore. But most people in KC would probably move on and go watch the Chiefs play in Bonner Springs or something. They seem to enjoy Sporting KC playing in the parking lot of a furniture store in the middle of nowhere.

I really don't see the Royals moving to the KS side though. I honestly think they will leave town before they move to the KS side. KC is just not a big enough metro for a MLB team to survive in the KS suburbs of KC.

I don't even know what to say about Jackson County anymore though. While moving the teams to KS would be the nail in the coffin for me as far as being a long time supporter and KCMO ambassador, it's nobody's fault but those on the MO side.

And while I do think the Chiefs should stay where they are. Do people in metro KC have any fucking idea how run down and shitty that entire part of town looks? I mean it used to be a dumb area, but now it's just embarrassing. Run down and closed hotels, vacant buildings and overgrown land everywhere, gas stations and churches, no basic infrastructure like sidewalks or landscaping. That area makes it look like the Chiefs are playing outside of Jackson MS. And the city and county have zero plans to clean up the area.

So yeah, if KS proposed to build them a new stadium, the Chiefs will likely take it. Even if they do stay, that area around the stadium is only going to continue to deteriorate. I'm still pretty amazed KC was selected for the World Cup just based on the state of that area of town alone. I can't imagine visiting that area from Munich or something. Culture shock.

[Chris Stritzel]

If I were John Sherman, I’d call a press conference and address these claims and the Crossroads site comments immediately. Make it clear whether or not the rumors are true, and if so, say why. City of KC government officials support the Royals remaining in the city. That’s incredibly clear. Manny Abarca is annoyed at the crap Frank White is pulling. If the Royals leave Jackson County, the blame can be placed solely on Frank White’s incompetence.

The idea that KC is too small of a market for an MLB team is laughable considering a million people turned out for their 2015 victory parade. The quality of the product on the field dictates attendance. KC can support an MLB franchise, and has for decades now. Anyone saying the contrary is a negative person.

Lastly, I think that if Jackson County falls apart, Clay County will pick it up and run with it. When the concepts came out a few months ago, most all Clay County government officials were in support. You’d need a taxing district, and polls show that being a difficult sell, but no effort has been made to educate voters. And if you kicked the vote down the road a bit, it gives you more time to educate voters.

Meanwhile in Jackson County, it seems that the media is in cahoots with the opposition of a new stadium and renewal of the sales tax. Take for example that letter saying “how much the stadium will really cost“ running up into billions of dollars. That, to me, is a nefarious article, released by the media and county to make people who are opposed to the new stadium feel legitimized and give them ammunition.

Lastly, if you’re basing your pride off of the actions of bureaucrats, then you’re re not legitimately full of pride of your current/former city.

[GRID]

The idea that KC is too small of a market for an MLB team is laughable considering a million people turned out for their 2015 victory parade. The quality of the product on the field dictates attendance. KC can support an MLB franchise, and has for decades now. Anyone saying the contrary is a negative person.

I never said KC could not support a MLB team. I said if KC lost MLB, it would never get a team back. KC supports the Royals because the team is rooted in the city's history and culture. By today's standards, the metro is not a good candidate for a relocated or expansion franchise. KC will support a winning MLB team, but that does not mean a MLB team is viable in the KC market. Small population, terrible cable deals, an old stadium with few revenue streams, almost no corporate season tickets etc all equal a low payroll team.

And even though KC supports the Royals, the team is worth far more in a larger and faster growing metro with more companies, a modern stadium etc. How can that even be debated? So if KC drags the stadium issue out and wants to keep Kauffman Stadium, there is a chance the their owners will take the money and just sell the team. It may not be Sherman, but it's very possible over the next decade. And would KC care? Because being in a small market with an old stadium, they will likely remain a terrible team most years.

That's not being a negative person. That's being realistic about a real situation that 90% of Kansas Citians don't seem to be taking seriously and honestly I think Frank White wants to see the team fail/move and will sabotage any effort to do otherwise.

[WoodDraw]

First, this a coordinated leak. I don't think this is serving the royals well.

Obviously Jackson county doesn't look good here too.

This divorce was always going to be messy, but playing it out this publicly and stabby isn't a great look.


Doesn't Kansas set aside their gambling revenue to pay for this if it happens?

This was inevitable.


I don't think the royals can continue to survive without an urban park. Chiefs will be fine, but they have a pretty good location. I dunno, I'm frustrated and struggling to care with the way this is going.

[GRID]

Just remember. Sporting KC was pretty much a lock in south KC. I mean they had some serious plans for the Cerner project that included the soccer stadium. It was an actual halfway mixed use project vs the prison campus they ended up building.

Everybody woke up one morning to the news that a deal had been reached to build a new stadium in KCK and the South KC site was 100% dead and no longer an option. Literally overnight while everybody else was discussing the South KC site. And this was when the city and even the state of MO was actually working with the developers and had put in some good effort to help build in South KC.

So while Jackson County is messing around and everybody is leaking whatever, nobody knows what might actually be going on behind the scenes with people that are a little more serious about building a stadium for these teams.

And I agree, the Royals will get an urban stadium or nothing (leave metro KC). As much as JoCo people think of JoCo, it's not the northern suburbs of Atlanta where something like the Battery would work. I would imagine they might try it, but it would have little chance of ever being built because the suburbs alone won't support MLB in KC. That's their problem now.

[WoodDraw]

Sporting KC always wanted a suburban stadium at the time. I think they regret that today.

[GRID]

Sporting KC always wanted a suburban stadium at the time. I think they regret that today.

Agree, and South KC is suburban. It's also way closer to more of KC's suburban population (south JoCo, south and eastern Jackson, Cass etc) than western KCK. So not sure what your point is. My point is that while everybody is thinking Downtown, sports complex etc, you never know what KS has going on. I have seen too many last minute overnight contracts signed to move companies, hospitals, schools etc from KCMO to KS over the years while negotiations are ongoing to keep them in KCMO.

Just don't overlook the KS threat. That's all I'm saying. A KS threat might actually help get a downtown stadium done for the Royals though because again, I don't see MLB working on the KS side. But they will no doubt try.

[beautyfromashes]

Neither the Royals nor Chiefs are leaving Jackson County. Don't listen to this fearmongering. It's a negotiation ploy. (Push false narratives to increase political pressure on your opponent to improve negotiation standing). They're basically trying to get taxpayers to negotiate against their own best interests.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I doubt there’s much weight there, but pretending that a Kansas option hasn’t been at least casually explored is also not realistic. I doubt they’re heavily pursuing it, but I don’t doubt it’s being weighed as an eventual option.

You need to be more realistic. I think there is a very good chance the Chiefs end up in Kansas if Jackson County can not get their heads out of their ass and most people will probably follow the Chiefs to a KS side stadium. I don't think it matters much where they play if they don't do a super stadium closer to downtown (like NKC or Paseo West). My problem with them going to KS is how much KCMO has already lost to Kansas. I think losing the pro teams would just be too much and my KCMO pride would take such a big hit that I won't want to even think about the city anymore. But most people in KC would probably move on and go watch the Chiefs play in Bonner Springs or something. They seem to enjoy Sporting KC playing in the parking lot of a furniture store in the middle of nowhere.

I really don't see the Royals moving to the KS side though. I honestly think they will leave town before they move to the KS side. KC is just not a big enough metro for a MLB team to survive in the KS suburbs of KC.

I don't even know what to say about Jackson County anymore though. While moving the teams to KS would be the nail in the coffin for me as far as being a long time supporter and KCMO ambassador, it's nobody's fault but those on the MO side.

And while I do think the Chiefs should stay where they are. Do people in metro KC have any fucking idea how run down and shitty that entire part of town looks? I mean it used to be a dumb area, but now it's just embarrassing. Run down and closed hotels, vacant buildings and overgrown land everywhere, gas stations and churches, no basic infrastructure like sidewalks or landscaping. That area makes it look like the Chiefs are playing outside of Jackson MS. And the city and county have zero plans to clean up the area.

So yeah, if KS proposed to build them a new stadium, the Chiefs will likely take it. Even if they do stay, that area around the stadium is only going to continue to deteriorate. I'm still pretty amazed KC was selected for the World Cup just based on the state of that area of town alone. I can't imagine visiting that area from Munich or something. Culture shock.

Not a snowballs chance in hell, and it would be solely because the State doesn’t want to lose another NFL team. They’d get help from the State gov before they’d hop State lines

[dukuboy1]

I thought KS & MO had agreed to stop the “border war” when it came to poaching businesses & moving dollars around the Metro but resulting in a zero sum NET gain. This would be the biggest of the poaching ever, and if not certainly the biggest in the last 50yrs. They may not employe a lot of people like larger companies but the value & economic impact certainly is as big if not bigger.

If KS is explored I’d love the governors to answer why. If we find that Frank White is working on his own & not in the best interests of the county he should be removed from office. This is just ridiculous and sad. The future prosperity of the KC Metro is at stake, not all of it of course but a big portion. All because a beloved ex-Royal has decided to tarnish his legacy and be an asshole to get back at a perceived wrong. Seriously what a dick. This is HS bullshit & we need some adults in the room to settle this now

[WoodDraw]

Sporting KC always wanted a suburban stadium at the time. I think they regret that today.

Agree, and South KC is suburban. It's also way closer to more of KC's suburban population (south JoCo, south and eastern Jackson, Cass etc) than western KCK. So not sure what your point is. My point is that while everybody is thinking Downtown, sports complex etc, you never know what KS has going on. I have seen too many last minute overnight contracts signed to move companies, hospitals, schools etc from KCMO to KS over the years while negotiations are ongoing to keep them in KCMO.

Just don't overlook the KS threat. That's all I'm saying. A KS threat might actually help get a downtown stadium done for the Royals though because again, I don't see MLB working on the KS side. But they will no doubt try.

Wasn't disagreeing with you, but I think it's important to remember the city and state politics at that time along with the ownership. It wasn't a great point for the city. KS came in with something MO just had no answer to with the leadership. No one here will hold that time up as an example, and I believe the ownership now would rather be downtown. This has been litigated to death, but when one of the owners has strong opinions downtown was out. Cerner is also kinda gone. I'm not sure I agree with you on that grand redevelopment plan working out.

A point, if I even have one, is maybe the royals have learned from that mistake. I don't think the Royals want to change a parking lot for a parking lot, at least if we take them at their word.

I still think people are panicking over posturing. The Royals truly fucked this up and the chiefs are just kinda sitting back and letting them take abuse. I have to think the adults in the room will eventually get together (echoing what Anthony said above).

[aknowledgeableperson]

" City of KC government officials support the Royals remaining in the city. That’s incredibly clear. Manny Abarca is annoyed at the crap Frank White is pulling. If the Royals leave Jackson County, the blame can be placed solely on Frank White’s incompetence."

If the KCMO government really wants a downtown stadium why doesn't it speak up and say the city itself will help fund the stadium instead of relying on a county tax?

"Just remember. Sporting KC was pretty much a lock in south KC. I mean they had some serious plans for the Cerner project that included the soccer stadium. It was an actual halfway mixed use project vs the prison campus they ended up building."

If my memory is correct didn't the team want the city to guarantee the bond payments much like the P&L? Yes hindsight is 20/20 but that was at a time before all of the local tournament soccer fields were built and/or planned.


" Sporting KC always wanted a suburban stadium at the time. I think they regret that today."

Given the crowds and support the team has playing where they are why would they regret that decision? I see the team staying there unless they see the need to build a much bigger stadium.

[langosta]

" City of KC government officials support the Royals remaining in the city. That’s incredibly clear. Manny Abarca is annoyed at the crap Frank White is pulling. If the Royals leave Jackson County, the blame can be placed solely on Frank White’s incompetence."

If the KCMO government really wants a downtown stadium why doesn't it speak up and say the city itself will help fund the stadium instead of relying on a county tax?

"Just remember. Sporting KC was pretty much a lock in south KC. I mean they had some serious plans for the Cerner project that included the soccer stadium. It was an actual halfway mixed use project vs the prison campus they ended up building."

If my memory is correct didn't the team want the city to guarantee the bond payments much like the P&L? Yes hindsight is 20/20 but that was at a time before all of the local tournament soccer fields were built and/or planned.


" Sporting KC always wanted a suburban stadium at the time. I think they regret that today."

Given the crowds and support the team has playing where they are why would they regret that decision? I see the team staying there unless they see the need to build a much bigger stadium.

To your last point, current facility + location isn’t going to win marquee sports events now that every other team has new mostly better digs. Actual people at games was very bad for much of the season.