Downtown Baseball Stadium

[TheLastGentleman]

I think their biggest failure was being too open and honest as they are going through the process to the public.

I think the real problem was the lengths of silence. I think it would’ve been alright to be open about shopping around if we got more frequent updates. As it was, the lengths of silence would build everyone up for a final reveal, only for it to be revealed as another round of choices

[KCPowercat]

I think their biggest failure was being too open and honest as they are going through the process to the public.

I think the real problem was the lengths of silence. I think it would’ve been alright to be open about shopping around if we got more frequent updates. As it was, the lengths of silence would build everyone up for a final reveal, only for it to be revealed as another round of choices

Agreed based on them coming out saying something, then going silent. Just would have been better to be silent longer and then rollout with the plan, leave the sausage making in the factory.

[DColeKC]

I think their biggest failure was being too open and honest as they are going through the process to the public.

I think the real problem was the lengths of silence. I think it would’ve been alright to be open about shopping around if we got more frequent updates. As it was, the lengths of silence would build everyone up for a final reveal, only for it to be revealed as another round of choices

Agreed based on them coming out saying something, then going silent. Just would have been better to be silent longer and then rollout with the plan, leave the sausage making in the factory.

It also doesn't help that all of the Mayors meetings are public record. This latest situation would have been kept quiet until a true plan was revealed if it wasn't for a journalist discovering those meeting notes.

I'll blame the latest blunder on that, but the prior situations fall squarely on the Royals as an organization.

[dukuboy1]

honestly the whole process makes the Royals Ownership look like bumbling fools. They say good things, the right things, then go silent for months. Come back with some nonsense and now we are 2 steps back from where we were. Then the release some renderings and say good things, 1 step forward. Then they go and "look at options" but no one understands why or what some of the options are, 2 steps back.

This entire see-saw development event has been dragged out for a year now with deadlines missed, conflicting info, etc. It really seems like the lights are on but no one is home or they are at home but everyone is in their own rooms on their phones making tik toks and contradicting each other. Just a PR mess and the perception is Sherman is kind of a goof with no real ability to lead and push forth his vision.

The public wants to see a leader push forward and say this is what will happen, this is what it will cost, this is when it will be ready. They need to spend energy executing a plan & strategy, not trying to find more options. All it is doing is making it appear you cannot make a choice. I'd rather them make a decision and be told no & try again then to never try anything. Paralysis by analysis is in full effect now.

This is the main reason Cordish got involved. They have a history of working with this city to get things done. They got involved with the convention hotel too behind the scenes when things were looking a mess. The were involved with the cap. Now they’re trying to help the royals accomplish downtown baseball.

thanks for the insight and I agree any help Royals can get with teams more familiar how to get things done and actually have done it are smart. Also nice of Cordish to lend their expertise. Obviously they stand to gain from downtown baseball but them being proactive, even if they may have ulterior motives I can appreciate them stepping forward , being proactive and offering to help. As someone in business who has worked on large projects that may not be 100% in my "wheelhouse" and welcome those with experience and can help view things through a different lens and provide know how. If anything it shows some smart planning to try to get all of these major projects to be on the same path and play a part in a bigger global picture. I suspect maybe the City Manager might have had a hand in this, which is a good thing IMO.

[Metro]

honestly the whole process makes the Royals Ownership look like bumbling fools. They say good things, the right things, then go silent for months. Come back with some nonsense and now we are 2 steps back from where we were. Then the release some renderings and say good things, 1 step forward. Then they go and "look at options" but no one understands why or what some of the options are, 2 steps back.

This entire see-saw development event has been dragged out for a year now with deadlines missed, conflicting info, etc. It really seems like the lights are on but no one is home or they are at home but everyone is in their own rooms on their phones making tik toks and contradicting each other. Just a PR mess and the perception is Sherman is kind of a goof with no real ability to lead and push forth his vision.

The public wants to see a leader push forward and say this is what will happen, this is what it will cost, this is when it will be ready. They need to spend energy executing a plan & strategy, not trying to find more options. All it is doing is making it appear you cannot make a choice. I'd rather them make a decision and be told no & try again then to never try anything. Paralysis by analysis is in full effect now.

This is the main reason Cordish got involved. They have a history of working with this city to get things done. They got involved with the convention hotel too behind the scenes when things were looking a mess. The were involved with the cap. Now they’re trying to help the royals accomplish downtown baseball.

thanks for the insight and I agree any help Royals can get with teams more familiar how to get things done and actually have done it are smart. Also nice of Cordish to lend their expertise. Obviously they stand to gain from downtown baseball but them being proactive, even if they may have ulterior motives I can appreciate them stepping forward , being proactive and offering to help. As someone in business who has worked on large projects that may not be 100% in my "wheelhouse" and welcome those with experience and can help view things through a different lens and provide know how. If anything it shows some smart planning to try to get all of these major projects to be on the same path and play a part in a bigger global picture. I suspect maybe the City Manager might have had a hand in this, which is a good thing IMO.

The Rag is getting desperate here. This project simply doesn't have the support Sherman fucked it all up.

[dnweava]

somebody can go ahead and give this to the Royals, I'm designing the stadium for free... You can Easily fit a baseball stadium (this is roughly a 30k seat stadium, using a Royals Urban academy field which has fences that are 8 to 10 feet shorter than the K. Also can fit a soccer field.

Saves a big chunk of the star building which can be used as a main entrance, food hall, hall of fame, etc. Also saves the older buildings along Grand, doesn't close Oak, etc.

[DColeKC]

This is the main reason Cordish got involved. They have a history of working with this city to get things done. They got involved with the convention hotel too behind the scenes when things were looking a mess. The were involved with the cap. Now they’re trying to help the royals accomplish downtown baseball.

thanks for the insight and I agree any help Royals can get with teams more familiar how to get things done and actually have done it are smart. Also nice of Cordish to lend their expertise. Obviously they stand to gain from downtown baseball but them being proactive, even if they may have ulterior motives I can appreciate them stepping forward , being proactive and offering to help. As someone in business who has worked on large projects that may not be 100% in my "wheelhouse" and welcome those with experience and can help view things through a different lens and provide know how. If anything it shows some smart planning to try to get all of these major projects to be on the same path and play a part in a bigger global picture. I suspect maybe the City Manager might have had a hand in this, which is a good thing IMO.

The Rag is getting desperate here. This project simply doesn't have the support Sherman fucked it all up.

According to what you see on social media?

[DColeKC]

somebody can go ahead and give this to the Royals, I'm designing the stadium for free... You can Easily fit a baseball stadium (this is roughly a 30k seat stadium, using a Royals Urban academy field which has fences that are 8 to 10 feet shorter than the K. Also can fit a soccer field.

Saves a big chunk of the star building which can be used as a main entrance, food hall, hall of fame, etc. Also saves the older buildings along Grand, doesn't close Oak, etc.

Yikes.

[dnweava]

Yikes.

Don't be hatin' .... I threw it together in 5 minutes in MS paint, but it is scaled correctly to show a stadium fits in the block without closing Oak

[Metro]

thanks for the insight and I agree any help Royals can get with teams more familiar how to get things done and actually have done it are smart. Also nice of Cordish to lend their expertise. Obviously they stand to gain from downtown baseball but them being proactive, even if they may have ulterior motives I can appreciate them stepping forward , being proactive and offering to help. As someone in business who has worked on large projects that may not be 100% in my "wheelhouse" and welcome those with experience and can help view things through a different lens and provide know how. If anything it shows some smart planning to try to get all of these major projects to be on the same path and play a part in a bigger global picture. I suspect maybe the City Manager might have had a hand in this, which is a good thing IMO.

The Rag is getting desperate here. This project simply doesn't have the support Sherman fucked it all up.

According to what you see on social media?

Buddy it's been a few months since there supposed announcement that still hasn't been made and a year into this thing with new sites getting thrown out there. The EV plan has failed and a vote will fail. You need to come back to reality

[Anthony_Hugo98]

This is the main reason Cordish got involved. They have a history of working with this city to get things done. They got involved with the convention hotel too behind the scenes when things were looking a mess. The were involved with the cap. Now they’re trying to help the royals accomplish downtown baseball.

thanks for the insight and I agree any help Royals can get with teams more familiar how to get things done and actually have done it are smart. Also nice of Cordish to lend their expertise. Obviously they stand to gain from downtown baseball but them being proactive, even if they may have ulterior motives I can appreciate them stepping forward , being proactive and offering to help. As someone in business who has worked on large projects that may not be 100% in my "wheelhouse" and welcome those with experience and can help view things through a different lens and provide know how. If anything it shows some smart planning to try to get all of these major projects to be on the same path and play a part in a bigger global picture. I suspect maybe the City Manager might have had a hand in this, which is a good thing IMO.

The Rag is getting desperate here. This project simply doesn't have the support Sherman fucked it all up.

As it stands, you’re assessment isn’t incorrect, but once a site is selected, a full court press of information and media is put out, and the spring hype comes around, I don’t doubt that you could see the tide shift substantially.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I think their biggest failure was being too open and honest as they are going through the process to the public.

I think the real problem was the lengths of silence. I think it would’ve been alright to be open about shopping around if we got more frequent updates. As it was, the lengths of silence would build everyone up for a final reveal, only for it to be revealed as another round of choices

The real problem was not getting their act together with the county first. As you can see right now the county is one of many holdups of the team going forward, You have to sell the concept first. Another blunder was saying at first the team wanted a "downtown" stadium with surrounding development to help support the team. Then NKC becomes a finalist, without a lot of the surrounding development to support the team. Then out of nowhere let's forget about the final two choices and go to a third site that doesn't have the surrounding development to help support the team. Does the team need financial support or not?
No, the real problems also include the team's indecisiveness and lack of direction.

[DColeKC]

The Rag is getting desperate here. This project simply doesn't have the support Sherman fucked it all up.

According to what you see on social media?

Buddy it's been a few months since there supposed announcement that still hasn't been made and a year into this thing with new sites getting thrown out there. The EV plan has failed and a vote will fail. You need to come back to reality

Guy, a finalized plan hasn’t even been presented to the public. An organized marketing plan hasn’t even been released. A final site hasn’t even been selected. Not sure how there can be no support for a plan that hasn’t been presented yet.

If you mean there’s strong “save the K” momentum on social media, I’d won’t agree with you. But we’ve learned over and over again that social media angst doesn’t always mean a project doesn’t have support.

The reality I’m living in is messy with a sloppy job by the royals from the start but the reality is there’s more happening now behind the scenes than ever before.

I’d expect a more formal announcement about EV or EC in the coming weeks. Most likely after the new year.

[Midtownkid]

The East Village is the best site. It is cleared and ready. Putting the stadium there would pull some life into that part of Downtown. People would have to walk between Main and go past our beautiful City Hall, past the empty lot where the Library once was (probably would be quickly developed) and past the empty lots on Grand (maybe a new tower would finally be built on that lot?). It would create momentum that does not exist now. And honestly it is not really that much further away from P&L than the Printing Press location.

This Crossroads location is not a good idea. I can understand that Cordish doesn't want a new Royals entertainment area to compete with their district, but that's a selfish motive. I don't want to lose the cool little area at Grand and Truman. That is one of the few areas left of the 'old city' downtown. Most of the buildings are not remarkable, but they are quaint. They house small businesses. Don't drive that away. (And don't mess with the Retro Inferno building, that is gem!).

The Crossroads location would also cause a major clusterfuck. It's too close to the T-Mobile Arena. What if they both had events in one day? That's not synergy...that's chaos! People will get frustrated and think twice about coming down to see anything at either venue if they have a bad experience the first time. I also am afraid they will tear down other nearby Crossroads buildings to build garages.

Spread the love around, don't destroy what is working when we have an empty site just a few blocks away.

[DColeKC]

Spreading the love downtown just because it’s the easiest thing to do is shortsighted in my opinion. Creating multiple but similar tax financed projects near each other that don’t compliment each other is just bad planning.

Cordish will help get the EV site done as well. They understand downtown baseball is great for the city and downtown. They’ve not done anything to block that or try and stop it. EC has always been the mayor’s preferred site because it checks all the boxes.

If it does go to East Village, we are taking a huge risk assuming anything besides the stadium will get done. Also, they would need to seriously think about what does go in the development so it does truly complement prior investment by the city.

As for EC being too close to the arena. Other cities can pull this off with worse interstate access. Philly has all 4 major sports teams play in the same area downtown.

[Midtownkid]

I don't want to spread the love downtown because it's easy. I want to push the vitality of downtown further out because it needs to be done.

I do think the Baseball district and P&L could complement each other. What would you presume they wouldn't complement each other?

I don't really want Cordish to help get the EV site done. I want someone else to develop that. We need a little diversity in ownership, not a monopoly.

Philly is not a good comparison to how things would be in KC. They have better transit and a population that is already more 'urban' minded and used to being inconvenienced. We are spoiled with convenience here. People will not tolerate traffic nightmares and 'hard to find' parking. We have a different mindset. I do hope we grow and change a bit, but the reality is, we are used to parking close to things, having low traffic, and not having to fight crowds.

And we really need to keep Oak open! East Village all the way!

[DColeKC]

I don't want to spread the love downtown because it's easy. I want to push the vitality of downtown further out because it needs to be done.

I do think the Baseball district and P&L could complement each other. What would you presume they wouldn't complement each other?

I don't really want Cordish to help get the EV site done. I want someone else to develop that. We need a little diversity in ownership, not a monopoly.

Philly is not a good comparison to how things would be in KC. They have better transit and a population that is already more 'urban' minded and used to being inconvenienced. We are spoiled with convenience here. People will not tolerate traffic nightmares and 'hard to find' parking. We have a different mindset. I do hope we grow and change a bit, but the reality is, we are used to parking close to things, having low traffic, and not having to fight crowds.

And we really need to keep Oak open! East Village all the way!

We can't keep catering to the misinformed suburbanites of the KC metro. We need to change in the right ways and they'll come around. Everything we've ever done has dealt with the same naysayers but end up working out just fine. T-Mobile Arena Vs Save Kemper. PNL Vs Save Westport. New Airport Vs Save our beloved and convenient airport". It's never going to change, so we forge ahead and develop things with a standard of convenience in mind but not custom designed to accommodate the Overland Park resident.

The original version of the EV plan was basically a mini-PNL. Residential, bars, office, retail. It can still do some of these elements in some capacity for sure, just think it needs to be very well thought out.

And Cordish will help get EV done regardless if they help operate it. The only difference (speculation) between the two downtown sites is if they're willing to put money into it. I can see them investing with the Royals at EC but there's no inventive to do so at EV. Diversity in ownership is great, but no one else has stepped up over the last 20 years like Cordish, so if we want to risk it and diversify, we may be waiting forever. If they can help lessen the ask from the public, that would give a major advantage to EC. Not to mention it is much closer to public transit. Being realistic, asking someone to walk 6 blocks to get on the Street Car is asking a lot. EC is 2 or 3 blocks depending on exact placement.

I want a downtown stadium regardless and I'm clearly in favor of the EC site. It may be a bigger challenge but the potential reward is so much greater and guaranteed vs EV in my opinion.

Regardless, this sure is fun to talk about and a nice distraction from things like war, politics and general bullshit!

Edit: How freaking cool would it be to leave the baseball stadium and walk through a park to get to the streetcar?

[dnweava]

If we do go with the EV site, I'd like to see the currently empty lots north of the T-mobile center saved as a view corridor between P&L and the new stadium so you could literally see the two areas from each other as a pedestrian/tourist. If you remove the ugly concrete municipal courthouse and the small weed store you could create a clear path between the 2 districts to keep that synergy so the areas don't feel so disconnected and could do some mixed use buildings (in blue) along that path to create a really cool diagonal corridor and suburbanites won't feel that walking to a game after getting a beer in P&L is too far of a walk.

[Midtownkid]

Not necessary. People can navigate a few blocks of the city without this direct path. In reality, I'd bet most people will come to watch the game and quickly leave anyway.

[DColeKC]

Not necessary. People can navigate a few blocks of the city without this direct path. In reality, I'd bet most people will come to watch the game and quickly leave anyway.

This is not what we see in other cities. I'm not sure if it's "most" people, but many people arrive early to eat and drink and stick around for a bit after to do the same. This really helps break up the mass exodus. Combine that with the ability of some to walk home, others to stay in hotels and thousands to walk to public transport and it's leaps and bounds ahead of the current situation.