Downtown Baseball Stadium

[WoodDraw]

What real example did I miss? I'm not one to dodge a question.

If you had the choice to only eat your favorite food for the rest of your life but nothing else, or never be able to eat it ever again, what would you pick?

[DColeKC]

What real example did I miss? I'm not one to dodge a question.

Not all of them have come from you only.

They can’t build over the interstate - Real example shown. It’s not exactly the same situation but same concept.

It can’t fit in the area shown. - Real rendering done by professionals is shown and explanations given as to where it sits.

Will destroy a neighborhood. Only impacts a single block that isn’t exactly highly utilized.

I respect your opinions but I also can be confused by your comments.

[DColeKC]

I would love to see cordish taxes and see if they haven't written those off

They have to share all financials with the city each year. Don’t you think the city would be all over them if they were sandbagging or purposely keeping spaces empty for some odd tax reason? I mean you want to tell me this crossroads site isn’t real while you say something like this?

And KCP - Speaking of reality. Every time I respond to a concern with a real example, it’s ignored. So who’s not dealing in reality here?

That's not really how taxes work. You can say this thing we spent x is now worth 0.

You can’t just say it’s not worth anything. If it were that easy we’d all claim our property is worthless to avoid the taxman. Commercial property is often assessed. There’s no way someone at the city doesn’t catch someone who’s benefited from tax incentives suddenly claiming a relatively newly built building depreciated by 100% overnight.

The financial win is having everything leased. Which it will be sooner than later.

[mean]

You can’t just say it’s not worth anything. If it were that easy we’d all claim our property is worthless to avoid the taxman.

Obviously this is true, but it seems they don't teach this at Wharton.

[KCPowercat]

"real rendering" maybe the best oxymoron I've ever read

[Chris Stritzel]

Let's settle down for just one second here and address something: don't you think it's kind of weird that the owner of the KCStar building openly talked about the Crossroads site coming back into play? Specific names (Blake Cordish, Quinton Lucas, Brian Platt, the Shermans) all have been mentioned in the news recently.

It's just awfully strange to me that someone, whose property could be in contention again, went out there and said that. If you were any of the other parties, you'd be pissed because if the terms of the deal were being worked out behind the scenes, why blow the lid off of the deal? What do you stand to gain from it besides media attention turning back to the property that you've had a hard time finding a buyer for?

My problem with this lies solely in that. We can debate Cordish all day, or how the East Village should develop, or how many buildings would have to be bought and leveled for this Crossroads site. Fine. But let's focus on the apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the foot here. Anyone acting in good faith would never run their mouth on this subject, especially to the media (who are itching to report on the Royals Stadium subject to generate clicks and views). This was, in my opinion, a nefarious action meant to garner publicity and attempt to both redirect public comment back onto site selection and bring eyes to the old KCStar Printing Press.

It might be a complex game of 4D chess, but I can't see how winning that chess game means running to the media. I sense great jackassery to a level that Frank White would be proud of. Just my opinion though.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

…The projected revenue way back in the day for PNL likely assumed the arena would have a sports anchored tenant.

It also assumed Cordish would’ve made a fucking effort in the last two decades to lease out some of their retail bays, Instead of 1/4-1/2 of it sitting empty any given point in time… but alas.

Oh yeah, they’ve not leased them because they hate making money. They really just love paying utilities and upkeep on empty space. Their favorite thing to do as a company is to bleed money. They build things to keep them empty.

Come on. Claiming these spaces have sat empty because of a lack of effort is ignorant.

But on a serious note. Even with all the places leased, there would still be a shortage of tax revenue. What’s needed is traffic. What drives traffic? Entertainment options, tourism and office.

If only we could build something close that sees a million or more visitors a year!!!

Is Cordish not guaranteed a floor on their loses from the city regardless? Call me crazy but if I had enough guaranteed that I wouldn’t lose, and I’d still be turning a profit personally, I’d likely also not lease out spaces and deal with the trouble of managing tenants, or I’d claim I’m “waiting for the ideal tenant for our intended mix”, while keeping lease rates astronomically high for the local market to all but guarantee I wouldn’t get those lesser than “local & small businesses” that occupy the northeast corner of the crossroads. They’re better relegated to some 50-100 y/o buildings to be bulldozed at some point to provide guarantees to my company that I would monopolize the development of the core of an entire midwestern city in perpetuity, and pump as much cash as possible out of that city and to my accounts in Baltimore. That’s just me though, who knows what the Cordish folks think.

[dukuboy1]

I like the ideas and being curious about options. But why now? Why not have given this more conversation when it was first introduced. This just gives the appearance of the Royals Ownership and Team Executives not having there stuff together. This just adds to a narrative out there of incompetency. Not only can they not develop players and pay for free agents and or keep the players that are good they happen to develop. They can't even decide on the easiest of things as to where to put the stadium. I mean the EV is the slam dunk on a 2ft goal. It's a can't miss given everything they have done to prepare this site for the stadium. Property controlled by members of the ownership team. Pretty much a blank canvas of land to develop and one that the city has been begging to get developed for decades. A spot that would create a whole downtown East to West. North to South, as opposed to squeezing it into the CrossRoads, an area that has already developed and is continuing to grow and flourish.

It's time to take your development energies and move forward with the EV. Name the site and start showing the public what you intend to do with it. Start to sell the vision of downtown baseball in the EV. Show what that site will become and hell even speculate on what development it can spur in the surrounding neighborhoods, etc. Point is, and excuse my French "stop fucking around" and let's make a decision and move forward. Have confidence in the decision and build the plan to execute it. You will never please everyone and it is foolish to try to do so. But make your plan, stick to it and make tweaks as needed but it's now time to execute the plan. More stuff like new sites or floating this idea or that only leads to more eye rolling and loss of trust in the public. They may think they are doing a good thing by saying "hey look, we are exploring all options". If anything it is having the reverse effect and says "we really have no idea what we are doing at this point. just trying to build downtown".

I disagree with you that EV is a slam dunk. Issues exist mostly on how it would be operated. There’s a very reasonable answer to why this site is back in play and now the leading contender but I’ll have to share that information far later down the road.

I’ve seen a lot more excitement online about this location than others. Which I was surprised by. I think the public is having a hard time understanding the extras outside of the stadium itself. They see those things as rich man greedy items even though they wouldn’t be paying for it.

Valid points. I do not support or like the Crossroads location because of the displacement of established businesses in an area that has forged its own identity through grassroots development. Tearing down thriving businesses & viable buildings is not a solution downtown needs. If it gets built there I will support the Royals & adapt as i & others have done in the past. I get the pros of being close to existing development. Will be interesting to see how the Royals & Cordish will “play together” and share revenue. It will be also interesting to see what happens to EV if this is the site location. The EV is a giant sucking hole, as is the empty parking lots around TMobile. Just hope development continues and we get a filled in downtown east to west & from River Market to Crown Center. Hoping Sherman & his team do whatever they do right

[DColeKC]

"real rendering" maybe the best oxymoron I've ever read

There are the exact responses I’m talking about. Sarcastic and no context. Vapor.

It’s a rendering that was put together by professionals to show basic concept. A visual depiction. In the business we have several different types of renderings. Conceptual, massing, structural and architectural plus various levels of output quality from quick to finals.

[DColeKC]

Let's settle down for just one second here and address something: don't you think it's kind of weird that the owner of the KCStar building openly talked about the Crossroads site coming back into play? Specific names (Blake Cordish, Quinton Lucas, Brian Platt, the Shermans) all have been mentioned in the news recently.

It's just awfully strange to me that someone, whose property could be in contention again, went out there and said that. If you were any of the other parties, you'd be pissed because if the terms of the deal were being worked out behind the scenes, why blow the lid off of the deal? What do you stand to gain from it besides media attention turning back to the property that you've had a hard time finding a buyer for?

My problem with this lies solely in that. We can debate Cordish all day, or how the East Village should develop, or how many buildings would have to be bought and leveled for this Crossroads site. Fine. But let's focus on the apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the foot here. Anyone acting in good faith would never run their mouth on this subject, especially to the media (who are itching to report on the Royals Stadium subject to generate clicks and views). This was, in my opinion, a nefarious action meant to garner publicity and attempt to both redirect public comment back onto site selection and bring eyes to the old KCStar Printing Press.

It might be a complex game of 4D chess, but I can't see how winning that chess game means running to the media. I sense great jackassery to a level that Frank White would be proud of. Just my opinion though.

I just want to mention that this became public because a journalist noticed the meeting and those in attendance on the Mayors schedule. I agree that the owner of the star press building should have utilized more restraint.

[DColeKC]

It also assumed Cordish would’ve made a fucking effort in the last two decades to lease out some of their retail bays, Instead of 1/4-1/2 of it sitting empty any given point in time… but alas.

Oh yeah, they’ve not leased them because they hate making money. They really just love paying utilities and upkeep on empty space. Their favorite thing to do as a company is to bleed money. They build things to keep them empty.

Come on. Claiming these spaces have sat empty because of a lack of effort is ignorant.

But on a serious note. Even with all the places leased, there would still be a shortage of tax revenue. What’s needed is traffic. What drives traffic? Entertainment options, tourism and office.

If only we could build something close that sees a million or more visitors a year!!!

Is Cordish not guaranteed a floor on their loses from the city regardless? Call me crazy but if I had enough guaranteed that I wouldn’t lose, and I’d still be turning a profit personally, I’d likely also not lease out spaces and deal with the trouble of managing tenants, or I’d claim I’m “waiting for the ideal tenant for our intended mix”, while keeping lease rates astronomically high for the local market to all but guarantee I wouldn’t get those lesser than “local & small businesses” that occupy the northeast corner of the crossroads. They’re better relegated to some 50-100 y/o buildings to be bulldozed at some point to provide guarantees to my company that I would monopolize the development of the core of an entire midwestern city in perpetuity, and pump as much cash as possible out of that city and to my accounts in Baltimore. That’s just me though, who knows what the Cordish folks think.

That’s not how the finances work. Any tax revenue short falls are made up by the city to pay for the bonds the city took out for their contribution. Which was all infrastructure related. Something they would have had to do for any new development in this area.

Anything besides a parking garage above ground was built and paid for by the developer.

The idea they keep space empty to maintain a high lease rate is false. They are incredibly flexible on their terms and most of the tenants in the district are local businesses or regional. Ask my friend Ryan Haverty how flexible Cordish has been with his business. He’s told me they’re great to work with.

I’ve worked on various projects over the last 15 years with Cordish. They’re not all about the money. They’ve got enough of that to last a long time. Their true passion is transforming cities and becoming a part of these communities. David Cordish who is in his 80’s said at the Three Light grand opening he still works because nothing else is more exciting than working with his sons to build these communities and developments. I’ve got this guys mobile number and he actually answers. I’m a nobody in the bigger picture but he still picks up. There’s many reasons why I’m such a fierce (annoyingly so) supporter of them.

It’s why I’m so excited about them being involved in this stadium project. They’ll help get it over the hump even if that means East Village. I know that for a fact.

[dnweava]

Here is how I'm currently ranking the proposed (and not proposed sites) based on my own personal preferences.

1. Star (if Oak is not closed)
2. Westport (a Wrigleyville urban stadium, don't think anything like this has ever been proposed)
3. East village
4. NKC
5. Stay at TSC
6. Star site if Oak is closed
7. Anywhere in Kansas (and I'll never go to another game if they go to KS..)

[Highlander]

Here is how I'm currently ranking the proposed (and not proposed sites) based on my own personal preferences.

1. Star (if Oak is not closed)
2. Westport (a Wrigleyville urban stadium, don't think anything like this has ever been proposed)
3. East village
4. NKC
5. Stay at TSC
6. Star site if Oak is closed
7. Anywhere in Kansas (and I'll never go to another game if they go to KS..)

So to be clear, the Star Site has two possibilities? One closing Oak and the other McGee? Am I understanding that correctly? Or is it McGee and possibly Oak with the same configuration? If so, from a land use point of view, that seems like a no brainer. The western site (closing McGee) preserves Oak (a through-going street) and would occupy a host of present-day surface lots with much less destruction to built infrastructure.

I actually prefer the original East Village plan though. It just does the most for KC with the fewest issues although the Crossroad's is an overall better location (it just should have happened 25 years ago).

Staying at TSC would be worse than a move to Kansas. Staying at TSC leaves the stadium in the same miserable suburban area and doesn't solve any of the Chief's issues; then we end up having two unhappy franchises in town. Going to Kansas would only happen if Jackson County voters say no. That plan at least gives the Royals some options other than leaving town.

[KCPowercat]

The star site has no real plans at this point.

[DColeKC]

The star site has no real plans at this point.

Why do you keep saying this? There are no "plans" for any site if we're going by your standards. It's all speculative and conceptual at this point.

There are three working concepts.
1. East Village
2. NKC
3. E. Crossroads.

NKC is dead as far as I know due to no funding mechanism.

At this time, there has only been one conceptual plan shown for East Crossroads and that one would mean losing a section of Oak St.

[beautyfromashes]

At this time, there has only been one conceptual plan shown for East Crossroads and that one would mean losing a section of Oak St.

And S. Truman...and McGee.

[Critical_Mass]

At this time, there has only been one conceptual plan shown for East Crossroads and that one would mean losing a section of Oak St.

And S. Truman...and McGee.

And 16th street is added back!
McGee wasn't shown as being vacated for the E Crossroads plan, but even if it was who cares? That ship sailed when Sprint Center was built.
Northbound Oak St as configured stops at 10th. What's the difference between cutting over to Locust at 16th versus 10th?
Lastly, who cares if downtown is convenient to drive through? Not this greater downtown resident. It is a destination to arrive to not pass through. If you want to bypass it you don't need to use the surface streets.

[WoodDraw]

Everyone is over indexing on location and not long term development.

I don’t really give a fuck about the royals. I care about the development of neighborhoods and downtown.

With that, I wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. Everyone go throw your phones into the river and I'll see you all in a week.

[DColeKC]

Everyone is over indexing on location and not long term development.

I don’t really give a fuck about the royals. I care about the development of neighborhoods and downtown.

With that, I wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. Everyone go throw your phones into the river and I'll see you all in a week.

You may not believe me, but I am 100% with you here. I’m all about downtown first and foremost even if we disagree on what’s best.

Also agree with you about tossing phones in the river. I think we’ve said about all we can at this stage anyway. I’ll be taking a break starting tomorrow morning.

[DColeKC]

At this time, there has only been one conceptual plan shown for East Crossroads and that one would mean losing a section of Oak St.

And S. Truman...and McGee.

That’s not what the cheap rendering shows. More to come I’m sure.