Downtown Baseball Stadium

[wahoowa]

something like a museum could be awesome in terms of diversifying who's here, when, and why and creating a stronger customer base for surrounding businesses.

I’ve been arguing that at some point Union Station is going to have to give Science City an eviction notice to actually flesh out train platforms again, especially if we want regional and metro spanning rail. This would be a glorious landing site for them, and provide a little more engagement on that side of town, and hopefully a more well rounded mix of businesses surrounding.

would be incredible.

[KCPowercat]

There are entirely too many posts to keep up with in here rn but the ones I did read I don't think are realistic or informed as to where this crossroads site was planned to go.

To levelset it was generally bordered by McGee, 670, cherry, and 17th and that was just the stadium. The surrounding district would expand that. There was zero talk of taking over to grand which jfc makes this idea even worse. Pointing at what a current tenant is (strip club, prime) is laughable short term thinking and cutting off our nose to spite our urban faces.

Ick.

There are a ton of growing sn active businesses in this zone and continue to be more.not to mention the impact it would me to those directly outside this boundary with new infrastructure needed.

[KCPowercat]

I'm really torn on this one. The ambience will be 10x better in that Crossroads spot (and will be one of the best in MLB), but this might be the only chance of this generation to completely fix East Village. Such a tough one.

Trust me, East Village gets developed regardless if the stadium goes there. We can literally have a new stadium that opens day one in the ideal location, woven into the fabric of our great downtown AND get East Village developed with much needed mid-rise apartments we could really use downtown.

You simply cannot weave in a MLB stadium into an established neighborhood. It can't happen. You are ripping it apart to put in something that size.

Putting in a facility open 100 days a year directly into s thriving neighborhood is criminal.

[KCPowercat]

Man, here I was hoping maybe 18th/Vine combo with NLBM was back on the table. I agree this is a tough one. If this could somehow be built over the 670 trench (precedent - Target Field) with a portion designed as a terminus for the South Loop park, I would be hugely in favor. An unconventional design here could really be neat, especially with a north orientation if possible.

That said, leaving big chunks of the surface parking along and around Grand, demolishing everything else south of 670, and plopping a generic stadium with a NE oriented field (hwy interchange views!) doesn't fly for me. This needs to basically take the whole block from Grand over to Oak, and I would still worry that parking interests could further destroy a lot of the surrounding fabric.

I don't share the belief that EV will be developed on any kind of reasonable timeline if the Royals don't build there, and downtown east of Grand is rough and undesirable in it's current state. It's an energy suck waiting for a major investment to balance out the downtown loop.

Need more info...

Exactly.

This is the ideal site. However, they need to get super creative. They have the room to do something there with the jail area, the highway an the star building. I really hope the town with nearly all the best stadium architects and designers in the world can come up with something more than just clearing a huge chunk of land and dropping in a generic stadium.

If done right, that would be one of the best MLB stadium sites in the country. EV, I'm sorry to say would be one of the worst urban locations.

I don't have high hopes, but I have some...

The long lines building is really preventing some over the top creative ideas here. I've been told it's not going anywhere ever, but I don't know that to be accurate. Could it be converted?

At&t needs that building. Just as they do in all cities for communication. It isn't going anywhere

[Anthony_Hugo98]

If the Royals do take the Crossroads site then there should be a full on pressure campaign *immediately* to put Sporting KC or the Chiefs in the East Village spot.

Please god don’t plop an NFL stadium anywhere within the downtown area. Talk about an energy suck

Agree 100%. NFL needs to stay where it is and I don't see the Chiefs even wanting to move downtown.

Does this mean there is a chance that Sporting KC is looking at the site???

I doubt it. That would be the best candidate for the NKC site IMO. I don’t see though why people think a SKC stadium would do well in DT but the Royals wouldn’t?

[DColeKC]

There are entirely too many posts to keep up with in here rn but the ones I did read I don't think are realistic or informed as to where this crossroads site was planned to go.

To levelset it was generally bordered by McGee, 670, cherry, and 17th and that was just the stadium. The surrounding district would expand that. There was zero talk of taking over to grand which jfc makes this idea even worse. Pointing at what a current tenant is (strip club, prime) is laughable short term thinking and cutting off our nose to spite our urban faces.

Ick.

There are a ton of growing sn active businesses in this zone and continue to be more.not to mention the impact it would me to those directly outside this boundary with new infrastructure needed.

My sarcastically pointing out the strip club is laughable short term thinking but plopping a massive generational project in East Village just because it's empty isn't? Once again, the smaller, older buildings the crossroads site would get rid of won't be there in 20 years anyway. I am ambitious and my opinions may not align with yours but I'm the one thinking long term here. The big mistake would be building in East Village, it never takes off and as mentioned is a downtown version of TSC and we see the crossroads site developed over time into residential and commercial towers anyway. That will happen, I can literally guarantee this. It's already happening and the park only expedites this.

I've been told by a highly respected architect that the Star Press building is so purpose built, that finding a new use without outstandingly high renovation costs would be a major challenge. It would take a philanthropist dropping hundreds of millions if not over a billion dollars to flip it into something like a museum. Saying that, I do love that idea but that's not something I'm willing to sit around and wait on while we have this viable option right now that will instantly add to our downtowns amazing progress.

Once again, the stadium may only be open for 80 home games a year and a handful of concerts but it will do more as far as driving traffic and business in that amount of time than anything currently in the area. It's not like these are eyesores when not active either. They can be built to fit the area even when it's not a game day. Other cities have done this, why are we so special?

[TheUrbanRoo]

Ok can we focus on the other part of that which was Sprting KC please

I want the full pressure campaign immediately after the Royals ink the Crossroads deal in a few weeks

[aknowledgeableperson]

Talk about a monkey wrench thrown into the process. The Royals had what 5 sites that were narrowed down to two and now one of the five is added back in.
This whole process looks more and more like a botched operation.

It's what happens when there are a lot of moving parts. Glad there is a lot of thinking the various issues through rather than find some abandoned site with and plopping it down where nothing will happen around it for the next 50 years.

I thought the "there is a lot of thinking the various issues" happened when the sites got narrowed down to two. As i said before the Royals put the cart before the horse in the way this has been handled.
I'll ask a question. Has something happened to both the NKC site and the EV site for the team to expand to a third site that was previously eliminated?

[Highlander]

Talk about a monkey wrench thrown into the process. The Royals had what 5 sites that were narrowed down to two and now one of the five is added back in.
This whole process looks more and more like a botched operation.

It's what happens when there are a lot of moving parts. Glad there is a lot of thinking the various issues through rather than find some abandoned site with and plopping it down where nothing will happen around it for the next 50 years.

I thought the "there is a lot of thinking the various issues" happened when the sites got narrowed down to two. As i said before the Royals put the cart before the horse in the way this has been handled.
I'll ask a question. Has something happened to both the NKC site and the EV site for the team to expand to a third site that was previously eliminated?

I suspect they are just looking for the optimal location and there is nothing disqualifying either the NKC or EV site other than the NKC site being far less than optimal. The Royals haven't really put the cart before the horse. They've gone on notice stating they do not want to play at the TSC in the future and a better site needs to be found. Regardless of what suburban Jackson County voters think, I think the Royals are indeed done with TSC whether a move to downtown, Kansas or some other city is ultimately in the cards.

[KCPowercat]

There are entirely too many posts to keep up with in here rn but the ones I did read I don't think are realistic or informed as to where this crossroads site was planned to go.

To levelset it was generally bordered by McGee, 670, cherry, and 17th and that was just the stadium. The surrounding district would expand that. There was zero talk of taking over to grand which jfc makes this idea even worse. Pointing at what a current tenant is (strip club, prime) is laughable short term thinking and cutting off our nose to spite our urban faces.

Ick.

There are a ton of growing sn active businesses in this zone and continue to be more.not to mention the impact it would me to those directly outside this boundary with new infrastructure needed.

My sarcastically pointing out the strip club is laughable short term thinking but plopping a massive generational project in East Village just because it's empty isn't? Once again, the smaller, older buildings the crossroads site would get rid of won't be there in 20 years anyway. I am ambitious and my opinions may not align with yours but I'm the one thinking long term here. The big mistake would be building in East Village, it never takes off and as mentioned is a downtown version of TSC and we see the crossroads site developed over time into residential and commercial towers anyway. That will happen, I can literally guarantee this. It's already happening and the park only expedites this.

I've been told by a highly respected architect that the Star Press building is so purpose built, that finding a new use without outstandingly high renovation costs would be a major challenge. It would take a philanthropist dropping hundreds of millions if not over a billion dollars to flip it into something like a museum. Saying that, I do love that idea but that's not something I'm willing to sit around and wait on while we have this viable option right now that will instantly add to our downtowns amazing progress.

Once again, the stadium may only be open for 80 home games a year and a handful of concerts but it will do more as far as driving traffic and business in that amount of time than anything currently in the area. It's not like these are eyesores when not active either. They can be built to fit the area even when it's not a game day. Other cities have done this, why are we so special?

Expanding downtown with EV is far from short term thinking. Ripping up what is already working is just backwards in my mind. We still have people to this day ignore the benefits that p&l has given because we lost very few buildings. We can't keep making the same mistakes of ripping up what's working chasing more. We need to focus on building up and expanding, exactly what the EV will provide for us and helps bridge even further east.

[GRID]

Please god don’t plop an NFL stadium anywhere within the downtown area. Talk about an energy suck

Agree 100%. NFL needs to stay where it is and I don't see the Chiefs even wanting to move downtown.

Does this mean there is a chance that Sporting KC is looking at the site???

I doubt it. That would be the best candidate for the NKC site IMO. I don’t see though why people think a SKC stadium would do well in DT but the Royals wouldn’t?

I never said the Royals would not do well downtown. I think they will do great there. I only said that I'm not sure the EV will develop the way most here would like.

The Royals need to play well and that will draw fans no matter where they are though I think Downtown will help them draw in some fans, I also think a new stadium will add much needed revenue to field a more competitive team.

I also happen to absolutely hate the location of Sporting stadium. They may as well call that team Sporting Topeka. They would do much better downtown vs where they are now. I can't imagine anybody under the age of 35 without kids making the drive out to that stadium, but I guess many do.

[GRID]

My sarcastically pointing out the strip club is laughable short term thinking but plopping a massive generational project in East Village just because it's empty isn't? Once again, the smaller, older buildings the crossroads site would get rid of won't be there in 20 years anyway. I am ambitious and my opinions may not align with yours but I'm the one thinking long term here. The big mistake would be building in East Village, it never takes off and as mentioned is a downtown version of TSC and we see the crossroads site developed over time into residential and commercial towers anyway. That will happen, I can literally guarantee this. It's already happening and the park only expedites this.

This is a very good point. The buildings people are worried about probably won't be around in 20 years anyway. Those areas near the 670 park and that close to downtown will not sustain those low rents much longer. The owners will sell to create larger parcels to be developed. I can see buildings like that staying on the fringes of the Crossroads further from downtown and other key areas like Crown Center, but no way the area around the Star Press stay like it is. And remember, half the area is either the star press or parking lots and some shabby buildings too. Probably less than 1/4 of the land is used by actual buildings that are worth saving.

And that press building needs to come down if they can't find a use for it soon. It's a massive barrier. Worse than a stadium because it's used zero days a year.

I may sound like I am 100% for this, but I'm not till I see the plans. I'm just open to alternatives to EV.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Agree 100%. NFL needs to stay where it is and I don't see the Chiefs even wanting to move downtown.

Does this mean there is a chance that Sporting KC is looking at the site???

I doubt it. That would be the best candidate for the NKC site IMO. I don’t see though why people think a SKC stadium would do well in DT but the Royals wouldn’t?

I never said the Royals would not do well downtown. I think they will do great there. I only said that I'm not sure the EV will develop the way most here would like.

The Royals need to play well and that will draw fans no matter where they are though I think Downtown will help them draw in some fans, I also think a new stadium will add much needed revenue to field a more competitive team.

I also happen to absolutely hate the location of Sporting stadium. They may as well call that team Sporting Topeka. They would do much better downtown vs where they are now. I can't imagine anybody under the age of 35 without kids making the drive out to that stadium, but I guess many do.

I wasn’t accusing you there, just tossed that in on the end. I’m more so speaking to the people here who think they’d just build a stadium and parking lots, when the plan from ownership has literally exclusively been surrounding the stadium with activation and uses to generate revenue. Even if they’re bad they’ll generate far more revenue than current, so no matter how they play they’ll likely be improving the bottom line and increasing funding avenues.

[shinatoo]

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/k ... 26858.html

Crossroads renderings.

[Chris Stritzel]

Is that the concept from Mammoth earlier this year?

[shinatoo]

Is that the concept from Mammoth earlier this year?

Don't know. Just posted on KC Star this morning. Looks like a generic-ish study.

[Cratedigger]

Is that the concept from Mammoth earlier this year?

Yes.

The Populous renderings at this site look different

[TheUrbanRoo]

This is a so much better debate than NKC vs downtown though. Atleast this debate makes sense.

[rxlexi]

The Populous renderings at this site look different

Does some portion of the design span the freeway?

[FlippantCitizen]

The potential of a Crossroads location was debated thoroughly on this thread. Seems like everyone who chimed in back then are mostly still in their same camps.

I can't personally fathom evicting a ton of good businesses, many of which I was happily patron to and creating an even bigger superblock that will disrupt connectivity and liveliness of the neighborhood even more than the Star building already does. I mean 80 days a year isn't nothing but also still a lot of down time. Something huge like this that is going to require a really big superblock should be at least somewhat peripheral IMO.

It's not that I'm chaining myself to these particular buildings, if they get redeveloped into something denser in the future that's good. I just can't imagine the city vacating a big street like Oak. Seems like a bad move to me. The area isn't exactly what I'd call vibrant but not floundering either. The big challenges in my opinion are the completely inactive Star building which also is a superblock and absolutely needs to be reused or come down for something to take its place. Also the presence of so much surface parking especially around the church. My big fear is that surface parking will be entrenched further and an even bigger superblock that is still inactive most of the time is not really an improvement.

The Crossroads land is just way higher value and more central than the EV so I totally understand why the team is interested in it. But from my perspective, big sports stadiums even in their best executions are marginal uses of high value urban land. I'd much rather see more residential and finer grained commercial stalls be added to that area over time even if it takes a significant amount of time for the situation with the Star building to get sorted. So my preference is for the stadium to go in the somewhat more marginal and removed location where there is basically zero chance of fucking anything up.

All I want is a stadium that is in the urban core, accessible by walk/bike/transit, and where I'm within walking distance of some good bars/restaurant. EV achieves that for me. The Crossroads location has a way higher percentage of completely fucking up some things I really like about DT KC and the Crossroads in particular. EV is a no lose situation in my opinion.