Capping the Loop

[TheUrbanRoo]

Just open Grand in exchange for closing Wyandotte for the park. Done.

Also, is Cordish even gonna donate to this project? Where’s the real donation?

[DColeKC]

but we can't inconvenience the majority to satisfy the minority. .

The fuck we can’t, that’s what’s been going on in government for centuries. It’s 2 miles, 6 once the extension is complete. There’s probably 500 miles of street grid in downtown alone. Personal automobiles can be deprioritized on the single fucking fixed rail transit spine that exist.

Yeah, and it’s really worked out so well for the government and society as a whole. As we currently live in horribly divisive times. Not getting started on politics and government.

See this is the issue with anyone saying anything remotely critical about the streetcar. God forbid!

My point wasn’t about doing anything to purposely harm the streetcar. It was about the FACT that more people (and it’s not even close) utilize vehicles to get into, around and out of downtown. That means more economic impact comes from those who use vehicles. I don’t think it’s smart business to neglect that fact when talking about potential changes to downtown infrastructure. Than again, some in here would ban any new build parking garages too, so definitely the wrong crowd when advocating for smart and sensible solutions.

I have an idea. Let’s take a play out of the federal government playbook. Let’s make using vehicles downtown nearly impossible and subsidize the hell outta public transportation forcing anyone who wants to be downtown to use it! That always works well.

I’m not knocking the streetcar which I think is an amazing asset for downtown and the city. Didn’t I just say that when I’m inconvenienced by the construction of it, I know it’s all worth it?

[DColeKC]

Just open Grand in exchange for closing Wyandotte for the park. Done.

Also, is Cordish even gonna donate to this project? Where’s the real donation?

They already have. They were one of the original people to fund the study to see if the project was even feasible. They have been the ones working in the background with state and local governments for 14 years on the idea. Isn’t that enough?

[TheUrbanRoo]

Just open Grand in exchange for closing Wyandotte for the park. Done.

Also, is Cordish even gonna donate to this project? Where’s the real donation?

They already have. They were one of the original people to fund the study to see if the project was even feasible. They have been the ones working in the background with state and local governments for 14 years on the idea. Isn’t that enough?

If their $1 mil donation compared to Blocks $10 mil is all they’re throwing in, then they’re not gonna have shit to say about shots called at this park. Or the roads. I’ll expect more to come in.

[DColeKC]

Just open Grand in exchange for closing Wyandotte for the park. Done.

Also, is Cordish even gonna donate to this project? Where’s the real donation?

They already have. They were one of the original people to fund the study to see if the project was even feasible. They have been the ones working in the background with state and local governments for 14 years on the idea. Isn’t that enough?

If their $1 mil donation compared to Blocks $10 mil is all they’re throwing in, then they’re not gonna have shit to say about shots called at this park. Or the roads. I’ll expect more to come in.

Lol. Cordish has invested a billion dollars into our downtown. We wouldn’t even be considering this park without their investment and push for the project. They’re the biggest stakeholder in downtown as far as I know, so yes, they’ll have plenty of input but they’re great developers who want what’s best for the cities they’re in.

But sure, tell them they can’t have a say unless they put it more money.

[KCPowercat]

Who will think of the cars!

Literally the the only thing we've done in this city since the 1950. The streetcar is carrying 5-10k people a day now and guessing that's going to quadruple with the plaza extension, think how many cars that's taking off the road. Prioritizing streetcar on main only helps the remaining auto drivers honestly. Use like the 10,000 other lanes of traffic.

[shinatoo]

Considering the hundreds of automotive lane miles and 10s of thousands of parking spots downtown, saying that a two-mile streetcar route is "screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient" is a strange hill to stand on. I agree that it's out of balance, but not the way you do.

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

It's literally what you said. Do you mean it's not what you meant?

[TheUrbanRoo]

They already have. They were one of the original people to fund the study to see if the project was even feasible. They have been the ones working in the background with state and local governments for 14 years on the idea. Isn’t that enough?

If their $1 mil donation compared to Blocks $10 mil is all they’re throwing in, then they’re not gonna have shit to say about shots called at this park. Or the roads. I’ll expect more to come in.

Lol. Cordish has invested a billion dollars into our downtown. We wouldn’t even be considering this park without their investment and push for the project. They’re the biggest stakeholder in downtown as far as I know, so yes, they’ll have plenty of input but they’re great developers who want what’s best for the cities they’re in.

But sure, tell them they can’t have a say unless they put it more money.

So they won't invest in the park more than that meager amount? Really?

I'm a lot more pro-Cordish than most on here, but that is atrocious if they won't give more money than that for the park donations.

[DColeKC]

If their $1 mil donation compared to Blocks $10 mil is all they’re throwing in, then they’re not gonna have shit to say about shots called at this park. Or the roads. I’ll expect more to come in.

Lol. Cordish has invested a billion dollars into our downtown. We wouldn’t even be considering this park without their investment and push for the project. They’re the biggest stakeholder in downtown as far as I know, so yes, they’ll have plenty of input but they’re great developers who want what’s best for the cities they’re in.

But sure, tell them they can’t have a say unless they put it more money.

So they won't invest in the park more than that meager amount? Really?

I'm a lot more pro-Cordish than most on here, but that is atrocious if they won't give more money than that for the park donations.

I’m not sure if they’ll put more money into it. Isn’t a billion dollars enough? I think other people can surely step up if they want a “Henry Bloc” fountain or whatever else.

What’s atrocious is thinking the biggest investor in downtown should now put more money into something in order to have a say in its design.

We wouldn’t be seeing this coming to fruition without all the money already invested downtown.

[DColeKC]

Considering the hundreds of automotive lane miles and 10s of thousands of parking spots downtown, saying that a two-mile streetcar route is "screwing over the vehicular traffic to make the streetcar more efficient" is a strange hill to stand on. I agree that it's out of balance, but not the way you do.

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

It's literally what you said. Do you mean it's not what you meant?

I didn’t say the current two-mile streetcar is screwing over vehicular traffic. I was talking about future changes and how it would be short-sighted to do anything that purposely harms vehicular traffic just to make the streetcar more efficient. I’m pushing the idea of figuring out equitable solutions that help both and don’t harm any modes of transportation.

[phuqueue]

You keep using the word "investment," which is correct, but the way you use it makes it seem like you think it means "donation," which is not.

[DColeKC]

Who will think of the cars!

Literally the the only thing we've done in this city since the 1950. The streetcar is carrying 5-10k people a day now and guessing that's going to quadruple with the plaza extension, think how many cars that's taking off the road. Prioritizing streetcar on main only helps the remaining auto drivers honestly. Use like the 10,000 other lanes of traffic.

Please don't take my comments as ant-streetcar. I'm not sure how else I can talk about this without everyone thinking I'm trying to say, "Screw the stupid streetcar, let's build more roads!". I'm only suggesting planning in a way that is the most helpful to downtown as a whole, including the businesses down here.

We've got to face the truth. We are a car-centric society and will continue to be for decades even as other countries start to decline on personal vehicle ownership. Lil Ole Kansas City isn't going to be the city that sets a new precedent on how people get from point a to point b.

[cityscape]

We have to stop making investments that fit today’s needs and lifestyles and start designing them for the future that is coming and what will be needed/wanted. We as a society have nearly maxed out our physical commitments to automobiles. Particularly in downtown urban settings where commercial and residential high rises abut the already 4-6 lane streets. We’ve over invested in parking structures when we should have been investing in the right type of public transit. As populations and property values grow, high density housing is going to be required to meet demand. Capping the loop and closing a street block or two will absolutely frustrate people who drive and perhaps cause thousands to avoid downtown. However, it will strengthen our public transportation and cause people to reconsider needing a car if they live in and around downtown. For the thousands of folks we lose that never come downtown any more, I suspect they really only visited once or twice a year and will be replaced by those who choose to live permanently in the CBD. This is what our goal should be, not catering to those that drive. Save that for OP, Lenexa and Independence.

[GRID]

If their $1 mil donation compared to Blocks $10 mil is all they’re throwing in, then they’re not gonna have shit to say about shots called at this park. Or the roads. I’ll expect more to come in.

Lol. Cordish has invested a billion dollars into our downtown. We wouldn’t even be considering this park without their investment and push for the project. They’re the biggest stakeholder in downtown as far as I know, so yes, they’ll have plenty of input but they’re great developers who want what’s best for the cities they’re in.

But sure, tell them they can’t have a say unless they put it more money.

So they won't invest in the park more than that meager amount? Really?

I'm a lot more pro-Cordish than most on here, but that is atrocious if they won't give more money than that for the park donations.

I thought for sure Cordish would be by for the biggest contributor to the 670 park. They have the most to gain from it.

[beautyfromashes]

We have to stop making investments that fit today’s needs and lifestyles and start designing them for the future that is coming and what will be needed/wanted. We as a society have nearly maxed out our physical commitments to automobiles. Particularly in downtown urban settings where commercial and residential high rises abut the already 4-6 lane streets. We’ve over invested in parking structures when we should have been investing in the right type of public transit. As populations and property values grow, high density housing is going to be required to meet demand. Capping the loop and closing a street block or two will absolutely frustrate people who drive and perhaps cause thousands to avoid downtown. However, it will strengthen our public transportation and cause people to reconsider needing a car if they live in and around downtown. For the thousands of folks we lose that never come downtown any more, I suspect they really only visited once or twice a year and will be replaced by those who choose to live permanently in the CBD. This is what our goal should be, not catering to those that drive. Save that for OP, Lenexa and Independence.

Agree with this! The goal now should be building for the people that live downtown instead of worrying about the drive time for those trying to leave it at the end of the day.

[TheSmokinPun]

We have to stop making investments that fit today’s needs and lifestyles and start designing them for the future that is coming and what will be needed/wanted. We as a society have nearly maxed out our physical commitments to automobiles. Particularly in downtown urban settings where commercial and residential high rises abut the already 4-6 lane streets. We’ve over invested in parking structures when we should have been investing in the right type of public transit. As populations and property values grow, high density housing is going to be required to meet demand. Capping the loop and closing a street block or two will absolutely frustrate people who drive and perhaps cause thousands to avoid downtown. However, it will strengthen our public transportation and cause people to reconsider needing a car if they live in and around downtown. For the thousands of folks we lose that never come downtown any more, I suspect they really only visited once or twice a year and will be replaced by those who choose to live permanently in the CBD. This is what our goal should be, not catering to those that drive. Save that for OP, Lenexa and Independence.

Hear, hear. I'm feeling let down by a lot of things in government & such but the city is one of the few things that I look at & see hope. Let's keep going.

[DColeKC]

Who financially contributes more to downtown via money spent? Who spends more money at downtown stores, shops, bars and restaurants? I'm sincerely unaware.

In my mind, downtown is a residential neighborhood but it's also a destination. It can't survive if it's solely setup to cater to residents. There has to be balance. I feel a city's urban core or downtown is a place meant for everyone opposed to the burbs which only cater to those who live there.

[TheSmokinPun]

But the suburban types want it to feel like their boring burb. They want the parking right out front, they want 8 lanes of traffic. We're not telling them to not come, we're telling them to get with the program.

[TheUrbanRoo]

But the suburban types want it to feel like their boring burb. They want the parking right out front, they want 8 lanes of traffic. We're not telling them to not come, we're telling them to get with the program.

Ok but those types don't really live downtown. Atleast not enough of them to matter for that.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I’m not sure if they’ll put more money into it. Isn’t a billion dollars enough? I think other people can surely step up if they want a “Henry Bloc” fountain or whatever else.

What’s atrocious is thinking the biggest investor in downtown should now put more money into something in order to have a say in its design.

We wouldn’t be seeing this coming to fruition without all the money already invested downtown.

I'm sorry but I don't get what you're saying. Investing in their own property isn't the same as donating money to the park. They will gain more from the park than *anyone* and right now they haven't even donated more than a crumb. These idiots won't even get us ground floor units filled up either.

After all the money we've subsidized for them and allowed them to profit (and int he future from the park), they can't even give us $20 mil or so for the park? Block gave $10 mil and they have one(!) building tucked in the back.

Will Cordish really cause the project to miss the deadlines it needs to open by the World Cup because of this?