KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

[langosta]

Spirit going double daily on LAS in October, a last minute schedule change.

[langosta]

The analysis quoted above is accurate -- Lufthansa is not going to double dip in Missouri. Delta kind of smacked AA by building its SkyClub here. They could do a Paris flight, but what businesses are left with a continental travel linkage? Marion Labs/ Hoechst/ Roussel Uclaf is kaput in KC. Bayer sold its big operation here. Much of the rest of Corporate KC is domestically/ Canada/ Mexico oriented.

London seems likeliest, but AA would almost certainly need to put in a club. BA would need some corporate demand, and I just don't see that in KC now. Some other shoe needs to drop -- a financial services company relocating to KC would do it, or a British subsidiary relocating here.

This, 100%. The reality is that unless we have strong corporate support we will likely be left with a non Tier 1 carrier IMO.

Lufthansa 5x weekly to RDU confirmed. Rumored to likely also be adding CHS.

[beautyfromashes]

Lufthansa 5x weekly to RDU confirmed. Rumored to likely also be adding CHS.

Metro population/rank
CHS- 2.267M #23
KC- 1.725M #33
RDU- 1.591M #36

[langosta]

Lufthansa 5x weekly to RDU confirmed. Rumored to likely also be adding CHS.

Metro population/rank
CHS- 2.267M #23
KC- 1.725M #33
RDU- 1.591M #36

I don’t think you got a single one of these right…..

CHS is a premium leisure destination. RDU a hub airport in a high income higher growth area.


Aer Lingus and Lufthansa out for 2024.Delta, British Airways, Iceland Air still in play?

[beautyfromashes]

Aer Lingus and Lufthansa out for 2024.Delta, British Airways, Iceland Air still in play?

Let’s just get Icelandair and pat ourselves on the back.

[KCPowercat]

So.was global entry not working at all at kci yet or just this is the upgrade to no paper?

[TheUrbanRoo]

As we said the other day, I continue to think Dublin is our best hope. I’ll be ecstatic if we can just get that.

[langosta]

So.was global entry not working at all at kci yet or just this is the upgrade to no paper?

It was an upgrade. KCI also has mobile passport so throughput should be pretty high now.

[langosta]

LH launched RDU and MSP. Also restarted SEA. A slate of US cities also received increased frequencies or upgauge.

STL was left untouched at 3x weekly. Plenty of chatter from STL netiziens that this is a bad sign. I guess LH previously dropped that 3x service isn’t sustainable long term. The worry now is that LH will cancel STL after the incentives dry up.

WN will release its schedule update on Thursday that will take us into the summer (June or July).

[TheUrbanRoo]

Isn’t that good for KC’s future chances if the STL market opens up?

[langosta]

Isn’t that good for KC’s future chances if the STL market opens up?

or bad that a larger economy with more business commitment couldn't make it work

[brewcrew1000]

These airline incentives are worse then the KCMO/JoCo border war. Anyone can get an international airline route if you throw enough money at it. Omaha could get a non stop to Ulaanbaatar for the right price. Speculating the next airline routes is fun for the aviation geeks but long term it does nothing, these routes will just keep shifting around from mid-market city to mid-market city cause airlines will just keep chasing the money.

[beautyfromashes]

These airline incentives are worse then the KCMO/JoCo border war. Anyone can get an international airline route if you throw enough money at it. Omaha could get a non stop to Ulaanbaatar for the right price. Speculating the next airline routes is fun for the aviation geeks but long term it does nothing, these routes will just keep shifting around from mid-market city to mid-market city cause airlines will just keep chasing the money.

Will get worse too with countries and airports, like AMS, cutting down on the number of flights due to environmental and tourism orvercrowding reasons. The demand is so massive right now to Europe, especially the big locations, and there’s limited supply. Have to think this will push vacation travelers to other locations and maybe we should be pursuing more Central and South American connections or Asia. All the tracks at the station seem to be full in Europe and maybe best to make a move somewhere else.

[STLguy1]

LH launched RDU and MSP. Also restarted SEA. A slate of US cities also received increased frequencies or upgauge.

STL was left untouched at 3x weekly. Plenty of chatter from STL netiziens that this is a bad sign. I guess LH previously dropped that 3x service isn’t sustainable long term. The worry now is that LH will cancel STL after the incentives dry up.

WN will release its schedule update on Thursday that will take us into the summer (June or July).

Your comments and post are completely off base and wrong.

There is nothing new here at all. Orlando and Calgary are flown on Discover not Lufthansa.

Austin was scheduled to go 5x originally this summer and was later pulled back to 3x. They have been in the schedule for 5x on a 787 next summer for a few months now.

San Diego is the same. It’s been in the schedule already. RDU is a new east coast destination. The flight is shorter and more efficient in fuel. *If* Charleston picks up Lufthansa (which I'm not sure where you are seeing that) it will be very seasonal.

MSP isn't *new* service. Lufthansa's Condor Airlines has been flying the route for years, but now Lufthansa will serve the route on their aircraft.

SEA isn't new... the service is restarted and adding Munich to SEA.

Lufthansa flights in STL are a huge success... they are not going to lose service. Maybe you missed that just a few weeks ago in the news...

"Lufthansa hopes to expand Frankfurt flight from St. Louis as passengers pack seats".

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... 69dd2.html

"Between July 1, 2022 and June 30 more than 65,000 passengers flew into and out of St. Louis through the route, according to an airport official. The thrice-weekly outbound flights were around 86% full during their first 11 months, in July they were 97% full. Well over the 70% national capacity average on international flights."

Even Lufthansa, not some airport yawzoo or blogger wanna be said...

"Lufthansa is considering that expansion [to daily flights a week]. The nine-hour flight is well above the financial break-even point, said Don Bunkenburg, Lufthansa’s director of sales for the Central and Western United States."

The airline has used NONE of the pledges 5.5 million dollar incentives to date. They will only use that money to subsidize any loses ot minimums needed to continue the flights.

The RDU addition is to compete against Delta and Airfrance in that city. They want the business class full.

The airline needs aircraft and personnel.

However, they also want to open RDU up. Numerous German companies have branches in the Raleigh-Durham area, and employees will now have an optimal connection to Germany and Lufthansa’s global network for the first time.

Expect STL service to go from 3x to 5x a week announced possibly before the end of the year or in the Spring. These things don't happen overnight. RDU was well in their crawl for the past year I am sure and is now feasible.

I doubt KC, with the lack of big corporations and international corporations (number of employees using the flights weekly and/or any corporate financial incentives offered) will land a legacy huge airline like Lufthansa. I hope we can get Iceland back... but their numbers weren't great either if I remember well especially in the winter. It would be nice to see something seasonal for leisure travel but then again the airlines are looking at the overall capacity for routes that are sustainable with corporate travelers filling business class seats. We just don't have that commitment to airlines.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/lufthansa ... 33451?l=it

[langosta]

LH launched RDU and MSP. Also restarted SEA. A slate of US cities also received increased frequencies or upgauge.

STL was left untouched at 3x weekly. Plenty of chatter from STL netiziens that this is a bad sign. I guess LH previously dropped that 3x service isn’t sustainable long term. The worry now is that LH will cancel STL after the incentives dry up.

WN will release its schedule update on Thursday that will take us into the summer (June or July).

Your comments and post are completely off base and wrong.

The St. Louis Airliners thread has distressed posters. According to JShank, Lufthansa has said 3x to STL isn’t sustainable so if it’s not moving up it’s likely moving out.

Nothing I said is inaccurate to those discussions.

[herrfrank]

FWIW, STL has a historically large Germanic population. My aunt's in-laws -- within living memory -- spoke German at home in St. Louis. Before the riots, large parts of southern St. Louis were populated by German heritage families. German was offered for five years in the better (West County) high schools. Only a smattering of the metro KC schools offered German (SME was one), and the max was three years (10th-12th grades).

KC did not have a focus on international commerce for some reason, despite the fact that Bayer had a significant operation (Mobay) in the metro. The managing director of that division lived on 63d Street in Mission Hills.

In 1988 (summer college job) I did some work in Lenexa for Unisys -- a heritage STL company, descendant from Burroughs -- to back up the STL call center. We would call German businesses who owned a mainframe and go through a checklist, in German. It was two or three old war brides and me, rattling off questions in rusty German in the middle of the night. LOL. But the main work was done in STL. Only an anecdote, but somehow KC never matured as an operation for European companies. Especially after Marion Labs went poof.

I am not holding my breath for Lufthansa nor Air France.

[herrfrank]

The unsaid part of this thread is that trans-oceanic flights and long-hauls flights generally _require_ paid business class seats to justify the routing. Only corporate travel provides enough paid premium revenue to assure the airlines when new destination decisions are made.

[STLguy1]

The unsaid part of this thread is that trans-oceanic flights and long-hauls flights generally _require_ paid business class seats to justify the routing. Only corporate travel provides enough paid premium revenue to assure the airlines when new destination decisions are made.

100 percent

[langosta]

Looks like JetBlue upgauged JFK to an a320

[STLguy1]

LH launched RDU and MSP. Also restarted SEA. A slate of US cities also received increased frequencies or upgauge.

STL was left untouched at 3x weekly. Plenty of chatter from STL netiziens that this is a bad sign. I guess LH previously dropped that 3x service isn’t sustainable long term. The worry now is that LH will cancel STL after the incentives dry up.

WN will release its schedule update on Thursday that will take us into the summer (June or July).

Your comments and post are completely off base and wrong.

The St. Louis Airliners thread has distressed posters. According to JShank, Lufthansa has said 3x to STL isn’t sustainable so if it’s not moving up it’s likely moving out.

Nothing I said is inaccurate to those discussions.

Where did an official from LH say that? Because LH officials have said only the opposite. Please site a news documented quote from LH official. Because that is NOT what LH is saying in all the news press and conferences.

I could care less (and anyone official in this industry) about "distressed posters" on an unofficial online social interest blog. I could say anything on this blog but it doesn't make it true, you should know that and reposting things like that are superfulous. Like politics

Was Austin worried when LH gave STL service last year and was slighted getting 5x a week (instead of their 3x)... no. They are still at 3x until next year. That isn't even new news, it was (look it up) announced on February 2nd of this year that LH would finally bring them to 5x a week beginning this summer. Now next year.

LH is focused on expansion service to US destinations. Frequency seems to come in time (with new aircraft and/or crews)

Minneapolis Service not new... just no longer on LHs lower cost Eurowings Discovery.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/lufthansa ... p-flights/

RDU only new "expansion destination city" in USA.
https://www.businesstravelnewseurope.co ... 3-schedule

Lufthansa Says St. Louis (STL) Profitable and Full
Aug 20, 2023
https://www.patreon.com/posts/lufthansa ... 33451?l=es