Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[langosta]

If only we would have started to be proactive about this 10 years ago when the troubling signs of the decline started to present themselves.

I’m concerned the Plaza is reaching a point of no return.

The neighboring property owners are just as bad maybe worse then Taubman

[Midtownkid]

I’m concerned the Plaza is reaching a point of no return.

Nonsense. The Plaza will be fine as long as the buildings are standing. Areas can be revitalized at any point in time. The Plaza is still surrounded by great things that will keep it going. It will just need to evolve in some ways.

[TheSmokinPun]

Always laugh seeing people crying about parking & "MY CAR!" without zero realization a ton of younger people either don't have a license or zero interest in driving whatsoever. Make the moves now before it's too late & dead in the water.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

If anyone is wanting to opine on the pedestrianized Plaza idea, public meeting is scheduled for 5:15pm on Monday the 28th at the Plaza library branch!

[Highlander]

If anyone is wanting to opine on the pedestrianized Plaza idea, public meeting is scheduled for 5:15pm on Monday the 28th at the Plaza library branch!

Anybody go to this?

[smh]

Agreed, would love a recap.

[bspecht]

https://www.urbanlabkc.com/pedestrianized-plaza/
https://www.urbanlabkc.com/wp-content/u ... tation.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... treet.html
https://fox4kc.com/news/re-imagined-pla ... ign-group/

[moderne]

Shared pass through concept might be most acceptable to the most people. Still get 4 fully pedestrianized blocks.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Shared pass through concept might be most acceptable to the most people. Still get 4 fully pedestrianized blocks.

We’re hopefully as this conversation develops that we can at least get centrals intersection fully pedestrian as well. Pennsylvania has full connectivity to the north of the area, so it would be harder to lose. Broadway would likely end up as a shared street concept at the most, as it’s technically an emergency access route to the hospital. I’ll be sure to keep everyone posted on development on this matter.

[Highlander]

https://www.urbanlabkc.com/pedestrianized-plaza/
https://www.urbanlabkc.com/wp-content/u ... tation.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... treet.html
https://fox4kc.com/news/re-imagined-pla ... ign-group/

According to the article "Plaza ownership tells FOX4 it has no comment on this story".

Am I missing something or does the plaza ownership seem strangely disinterested? I've heard nothing to really gauge where they stand on the possibilities.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

If anyone is wanting to opine on the pedestrianized Plaza idea, public meeting is scheduled for 5:15pm on Monday the 28th at the Plaza library branch!

Anybody go to this?

I might’ve been there

[Anthony_Hugo98]

https://www.urbanlabkc.com/pedestrianized-plaza/
https://www.urbanlabkc.com/wp-content/u ... tation.pdf
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... treet.html
https://fox4kc.com/news/re-imagined-pla ... ign-group/

According to the article "Plaza ownership tells FOX4 it has no comment on this story".

Am I missing something or does the plaza ownership seem strangely disinterested?

It’s by no means a lack of effort on our part. Our team has attempted to reach out not just in reference to this meeting, but as we were just getting this project going as well, but to no avail. We’re hopefully that they might take us somewhat seriously now

[TheUrbanRoo]

They prob won't comment or speak on it until the city starts taking action and moving on this project.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Shared pass through concept might be most acceptable to the most people. Still get 4 fully pedestrianized blocks.

Nah, screw that. There is absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be fully pedestrianized. 99% of the parking stays intact, you can pass through easily going around the edges of the Plaza still, maybe adds an extra minute to the drive? This could be sold as fully pedestrian without an issue. I haven't seen anyone clamoring for cars with this and I've been reading a lot of commentary.

And I say this as someone who's lived at the Plaza the last couple years -- nobody even likes driving their car through it if they absolutely don't have to. I can't imagine any driver still wanting to if it even became a shared space...just go full pedestrian.

[moderne]

Many years ago Miller Nichols wanted to fully pedestrianize that short block of Wornall north of 47th, where it angles in front of the former Houstons. There would have been some sort of wall/fountain at the north end. Think he abandoned the effort due to kickback from the city. Strange he could not get this little bit done when his family still owned the Plaza.

[HalcyonKC]

The current 'Not Just Bikes' episode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpcWUqVpIg) meanders all over the place, but what's fascinating to me from its grab bag of video clips is all the hybrid street forms that can exist between typical car-centric infrastructure that we're used to here in the U.S., and having a street completely closed to cars. I think it makes sense to give the Plaza an actual Plaza (pedestrianized), then consider some of the hybridized street forms around the periphery of it or even elsewhere in the city. The Plaza Art Fair closes a few streets to cars, but then draws huge crowds and is very popular.

[Chris Stritzel]

Not just bikes lost his credibility when he trashed North America, and the U.S. in particular, as "unfixable" and then blocked anyone who dared to present him evidence of positive changes happening here. I rather not take advice from, or give views to, someone who thought, "gee, it really sucks that I have to take my kids to soccer practice by car because I live in a small Canadian suburb. Pack up kids! We're moving to the Netherlands! And when we get there, I'm going to make a YouTube channel explaining how good everything is here while shitting on where I come from!"

47th should take the herbed approach through the Plaza because right now, it sucks to cross. Cars speed through there and I will sometimes have to wait a while for someone to stop their car so I can cross at the crosswalks that aren't signalized.

[HalcyonKC]

Not just bikes lost his credibility when he trashed North America, and the U.S. in particular, as "unfixable" and then blocked anyone who dared to present him evidence of positive changes happening here. I rather not take advice from, or give views to, someone who thought, "gee, it really sucks that I have to take my kids to soccer practice by car because I live in a small Canadian suburb. Pack up kids! We're moving to the Netherlands! And when we get there, I'm going to make a YouTube channel explaining how good everything is here while shitting on where I come from!"

I haven't watched every single one of his videos but my perception of his stance (which, admittedly, could be incomplete) is different. In some of his material he's shown pictures of what Amsterdam looked like in the 1970's versus now, and made the point that their move away from car-centric infrastructure was a long process that started with small steps which then gradually snowballed over decades. For me, his perspective as one person growing up and traveling North America then moving to Europe makes his opinions more relatable, even if he's sometimes brash.

If his channel was pure thought experiments and opinions, like he was some kind of sci-fi author mixed with political pundit, then his personality might be something I'd focus on one way or the other. But Amsterdam is a real place, it seems to function quite well as a city, and for the most part he's just traveling around taking pictures of it. I've never been there. So that alternative built environment is what I find interesting in his videos, as it makes me reconsider our own potential.

[dukuboy1]

I really like this plan for the Plaza. It's very well thought out and still provides great access to parking garages and full East/West access down 47th street. I guess Broadway is the 1 real "tricky" spot but I think the road calming or shared would be great, with the ability to full close off for major events. Good plan and I really hope the Plaza adopts it. Lots of potential once it is in place.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

Big issue is going to be office/hotel tenants along 47th and Hospital/Broadway. There are about 1,000 employees in Valencia place alone and the only way to easily access the employee parking part of the garage is via 47th going West, otherwise, you are going to W 46th Terrace and down 3 stories of parking to get to the gate so you can go down 2 more.

Many employees go down Ward Parkway, left onto Broadway, and left onto 47th, right into garage. It also pushes traffic going to other offices along 47th to use left turns only, coming from Madison, going right onto 47th, otherwise, you are going around the plaza and coming back West down 47th to make right turns.

It probably makes more sense to keep Broadway open and have it available to close for pedestrian only events that can be communicated to plaza employers ahead of time. The employers in those offices usually allow WFH during major events on the plaza specifically for that reason. Closing something like Nichols E/W between the N/S streets would be easier as that street typically has light traffic at all times and definitely central n/s.

I would honestly prefer road dieting along Belleview/Madison as well as Main. Walking along 47th from the West side of the plaza is antagonizing as cars are going 45mph south on Belleview and 35mph+ on Madison. Same for going N/S on those streets. Some sliming down from 43rd to Ward Parkway would be great but I see that as a non-event given its a primary N/S from the highway to central part of town. Two lanes at 30mph, one lane of parking, larger sidewalks with trees would make a big difference. It would at least bring car speeds down to 35mph.

As someone who has been working on the plaza since 2010 those are my thoughts.