Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DColeKC]

I'll bet about anything it goes in EV. A failure at the voting booth would be the only trip up and no way KC is voting against Patrick mahomes.

Yeah, I’m with this. This is negotiation via the press and fear tactics. Not that it would be disastrous to go in NKC. It’d be closer than it is now, likely on a new streetcar extension and would wound transportation towards the airport. Also, it would also free up some funds to immediately start looking at poaching SKC after the Current stadium is a massive hit.

I've been told Sporting has always wanted to be downtown long term, but one of the owners has been investing a massive amount of money into the area close to Children's Mercy Park.

[beautyfromashes]

I've been told Sporting has always wanted to be downtown long term, but one of the owners has been investing a massive amount of money into the area close to Children's Mercy Park.

Cliff Illig is in his 70s, so there will likely be an ownership change sometime soon. You’d have to think if they were given near the money planned for the Royals they would have to strongly consider it.

[DColeKC]

I've been told Sporting has always wanted to be downtown long term, but one of the owners has been investing a massive amount of money into the area close to Children's Mercy Park.

Cliff Illig is in his 70s, so there will likely be an ownership change sometime soon. You’d have to think if they were given near the money planned for the Royals they would have to strongly consider it.

The issue is Rob Heineman. He's got big money working in that area out there.

[beautyfromashes]

The issue is Rob Heineman. He's got big money working in that area out there.

That’s really surprising. I’ve talked to Rob a few times. He’s younger than the other owners (minus Mahomes), is invoked in FanThreeSixty, and has a high technology focus. You would think he would realize the power of placing Sporting in an urban environment.

[phuqueue]

I don't know what the answer is. But right now, the Royals should not be paying any attention to what the fans say or want. They should not matter at all because they are not and have not been supporting the team well enough to have a say. I just hope moving the stadium downtown will be the one thing that finally gets people actually interested in going to Royals games and keeps them interested for longer than a year or so.

Really? You don’t know what the answer is? It’s not rocket science: field a team that isn’t a complete embarrassment. Put the stadium wherever you want, but nobody is going to go watch rank incompetence night after night, year after year, at least not at MLB ticket prices. You’re acting like the fans somehow betrayed the team here, but why should people continue spending good money on garbage sold to them by ownership that’s far more interested in lining their pockets with a taxpayer-funded stadium than in improving the actual product?

Attendance wasn’t “just about average” for the WS run, it hit 10th in MLB, 110% of league average attendance in the second-smallest market in the league. It didn’t “drop like a rock” afterward, it gradually declined in step with the team’s performance (12th in MLB, 104% of league average for the 2016 team whose season was basically over by July, 92% of league average for the 2017 team that was under .500). Attendance didn’t get truly bad until the remains of the WS team were dismantled in 2018 and the Royals lost 207 games in two years. Maybe the pennants/WS should have generated longer-lasting goodwill, but on the other hand, maybe not. This is a team that has had four winning seasons in the past thirty and two playoff appearances in the past 38. Winning the WS was huge, but rapidly returning to form afterward (in exactly the way we all knew they would, with ownership allowing the core to walk instead of paying them) was huge too, just in the opposite way. In my mind, it’s actually incredible that they’re somehow still drawing over 16k (not 15k weekend/10k weekday) as they’re poised to blow past the franchise loss record (and were in realistic contention for the MLB record before they somehow pulled off a wildly improbable seven game winning streak). Who are these 16k suckers? Frankly the city supports them far more than they deserve. The fans don’t owe them anything.

(And yeah in hindsight we can see that not signing Hosmer or Moustakas to big money long term contracts turned out to be a dodged bullet — though, hard to imagine the team would be worse with them than it’s been without them anyway — but the consistent refusal of ownership, regardless of who that ownership is — cuz let’s be honest, early returns are that Sherman is an even worse owner than Glass — to invest real money in the team on a long term basis sends a message to the fans beyond just the frustration we might have felt watching the Hosmer contract become an albatross. At least the albatross would have signaled that somebody in charge gave a shit. Given the direction the team has gone instead, the decision not to offer those contracts certainly didn’t indicate the savviness of the front office. And in fairness, speaking for just myself, I would likely have railed against those contracts if they had been offered, because the team’s performance had already begun slipping anyway, but if you want to talk attendance and fan support, letting everyone’s favorite players leave and then watching the bottom promptly fall out is not a great move.)

[GRID]

The Royals went to back to back world series. The fans barely noticed the team doing well in 2014 and didn't really start showing up till the last couple of weeks of that year.

In 2015, the Royals were probably the best team in MLB and everybody knew it. The Royals drew 33k a game. Very good for KC, but any other city outside of Tampa and Miami would have drawn even more under the same circumstances.

In 2016 the first year after going to the WS back to back and winning the year prior and playing relatively decent 500 ball, the Royals drew almost 2000 fans LESS a game. No matter how a team performs after a WS win, the year after is almost always an increase in attendance. Dropping 2k a game in 2016 was just a really bad look and how does that put any confidence into the team signing big player contracts when the fans are so quick to leave?

In 2017 the Royals still won 80 games and attendance dropped by ANOTHER 4000 a game!!!!

So only two years after winning the WS and going to another WS the year before that and still fielding a 500 team, their attendance dropped almost 6k a game and the Royals quickly fell back to the lower half of average attendance.

So by then the Royals were probably like it's not even remotely worth taking a risk and signing big contracts because the fans are not going to show up in MLB average numbers unless the team is literally in first place all year long.

Then when the Royals really do start sucking in 2018-2019 losing over 100 games a year, attendance goes to rock bottom of MLB very close to places like Oakland who has a terrible stadium and a team that is not even going to stay in that market.

I really thought the fans would stick around a little longer. Seeing that attendance drop in 2016 was pretty eye opening. I guess KC is not really the baseball town it thinks it is. I mean look at places like Milwaukee. They have had some 90 plus loss years in the past ten years and they have drawn consistently 28-35k a game. Cincy has not done anything in 20 years and they pull in 50% more fans than KC does.

I think it's a legitimate question as to if KC actually supports the Royals enough for the team to consistently risk too much money to try and field a really good team.

And again, this is from a huge Royals fan going back to the 1980's who has seen the Royals play in at least 25 different stadiums, had season tickets back when nobody else did etc. Royals fans are about as bandwagon as you can get and even when they are good, the fans don't show up like they should for a legacy team that's been in the market for over 50 years.

I'm sure this post will piss a lot of people off, but it is what it is. I just hope a new downtown stadium might change things such as getting the corporate community more involved (so more tickets are in the market that can trickle down to fans that otherwise might not go like what StL Cards have).

[TheUrbanRoo]

In this video today from 41 Action News, two different Jackson County sources referenced that if the Royals try to go to Clay they will have to pay a "big penalty" on their lease. And I think they're inferring that the penalty won't occur if they stay in Jackson County...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olUaPOf0-gw

[Chris Stritzel]

The two county slug fest will continue until the Royals declare their preference. I'm betting on Jackson County. Even if Clay is estimated to be $500 Million cheaper for ownership, the ask from the citizens will be much higher and the headaches of a stadium up there outweigh the benefits.

Based on John Sherman's July 25th letter, we should be expecting to see "detailed renderings" of both sites within the next 6 days (August 24th is the last day of his specified "within 30-days" timeline for rendering release). I imagine that these will give us a clearer picture at which site had more thought put into it and if so, we will be able to deduce the preferred site pretty quickly.

As for attendance, I expect both NorthKC and Downtown will see an average game attendance higher than the current Stadium location since more people live close by. People will feel like it's not a big hassle to drive out to the suburbs, pay to park in a large lot, and deal with potential traffic issues on the way out with nothing to eat or do nearby. Downtown and NorthKC excel at addressing this with Downtown winning overall.

[GRID]

In this video today from 41 Action News, two different Jackson County sources referenced that if the Royals try to go to Clay they will have to pay a "big penalty" on their lease. And I think they're inferring that the penalty won't occur if they stay in Jackson County...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olUaPOf0-gw

It's nice to see a story with a more positive spin on it for once. The Royals ARE moving and the fans are generally okay with it.

[FangKC]

I haven't been here long, but it looks like to me they are simply taking advantage of an inept county executive who has allowed his personal grievances to potentially derail the whole thing.

Well, that's just bad business then. If they are making decisions about partnering based on emotion or personality or the current administrator who probably won't be the administrator when the stadium opens, that's just inept. It sounds a bit like an excuse. One person on a boards bad blood shouldn't be able to derail this.

I think Frank White's time leading Jackson County will be over at the end of his present term. I think another Democrat will challenge him, but I really don't think he'll run again.

[aknowledgeableperson]

As for attendance, I expect both NorthKC and Downtown will see an average game attendance higher than the current Stadium location since more people live close by. People will feel like it's not a big hassle to drive out to the suburbs, pay to park in a large lot, and deal with potential traffic issues on the way out with nothing to eat or do nearby. Downtown and NorthKC excel at addressing this with Downtown winning overall.

Whenever a team moves into a new stadium there is always a honeymoon period where attendance picks up. But after a few years the newness wears off and attendance starts to fall back to previous levels. Now if success on the field happens the honeymoon lasts a little longer.

[TheUrbanRoo]

There’s just no way they don’t give EV the first shot after all this time and the progress made downtown. Sherman understands the city too well to not atleast give them a shot first.

[chingon]

I guess KC is not really the baseball town it thinks it is.

No one who lives here thinks this is a baseball town.

[chingon]

Attendance wasn’t “just about average” for the WS run, it hit 10th in MLB, 110% of league average attendance in the second-smallest market in the league.

3rd smallest if you include the White Sox.

[Imarealperson]

I've been told Sporting has always wanted to be downtown long term, but one of the owners has been investing a massive amount of money into the area close to Children's Mercy Park.

Cliff Illig is in his 70s, so there will likely be an ownership change sometime soon. You’d have to think if they were given near the money planned for the Royals they would have to strongly consider it.

The issue is Rob Heineman. He's got big money working in that area out there.

No, the issue is that nobody has offered to build them a 100% publicly financed stadium downtown.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I guess KC is not really the baseball town it thinks it is.

No one who lives here thinks this is a baseball town.

Agreed. Nobody in KC thinks its ever been a baseball town lol.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I guess KC is not really the baseball town it thinks it is.

No one who lives here thinks this is a baseball town.

Agreed. Nobody in KC thinks its ever been a baseball town lol.

It absolutely transforms to one when the Royals are decent. The ‘13-‘16 years it was a huge discussion point for anyone I knew in KC. My family regularly talked about how big of a deal the Royals were to KC in the 80’s as well. KC is 100% a baseball town when you give the town something to rally behind.

[Highlander]

No one who lives here thinks this is a baseball town.

Agreed. Nobody in KC thinks its ever been a baseball town lol.

It absolutely transforms to one when the Royals are decent. The ‘13-‘16 years it was a huge discussion point for anyone I knew in KC. My family regularly talked about how big of a deal the Royals were to KC in the 80’s as well. KC is 100% a baseball town when you give the town something to rally behind.

Yea - People in the late 70's and 80's absolutely thought KC was a baseball town. MLB thought so too rewarding KC with a franchise immediately after they lost the A's to Oakland. The Royals were perennial contenders and the Chiefs were not. I made it a point to go to as many games as I could in the 70's and 80's - it was affordable and TSC was not a bad place to be.

Fast forward, free agency has hit the small markets hard, games aren't all that affordable (although Royals Stadium has some still cheap seats) and TSC is an isolated island in an otherwise now crappy part of town. Many fans today want the bigger experience that a downtown stadium can offer.

[GRID]

As a fan going back to the 80's, I do think KC was a baseball town back then and still can be today. The Royals never drew huge crowds, but in the 80's the MLB average was much lower. I am always surprised by how many Royals fans there are in other cities at away games compared to how well the team draws in its own stadium. Just a lot of transplants I guess. Nearly all Royals fans I meet are transplants, not traveling from KC or something.

I still just wonder sometimes. You say a downtown stadium will help, yet 80-90% of the fans (in KC) don't really want it or at most are impartial to the idea. I can only hope the fans that do want it are just very quiet or something or maybe they really are not going to games just because of the stadium, but as a baseball fan, the stadium would never keep me from going, especially Kauffman Stadium, even though I support a new stadium 100%. As much as Kauffman's area sucks, the stadium is still a great place to watch a game.

I can see some fans staying away like some walk up crowds, tourists etc, but if the vast majority of local fans who live in the suburbs don't want to go to Kauffman, they probably won't go downtown either. Sporting plays much further out away from the city than the Royals do and they do okay with attendance. People in KC complain about prices etc while Royals games are pretty cheap.

Maybe KC will never be a city that easily draws crowds like the StL or Milwaukee, but a new stadium is kind of KC's last chance to do something and hopefully grow a new fan base that will at least average 23-25k a game for most years. Otherwise KC is going to be the next Tampa or even worse Miami (poor attendance even with a new stadium). MLB is still very strong and there are so many growing markets that want a team.

As a big time royals fan (probably a bigger royals fan than a chiefs fan actually), I just want KC to be a baseball town again and I hope a new stadium helps make that happen because the Royals have not drawn well no matter how you spin the numbers. Again, how do you expect the Royals to sign big contracts when attendance is down massively just 1-2 years after going to two world series when they still have most of their players and are playing 500 ball at least. The Royals have to be in first place from basically week one all through the entire year to even draw 33k a game. In a small media market the Royals need fan support more than most teams for the team to sign players. It's a vicious cycle.

I hope the new stadium helps, but the fans have to show some commitment too or the team will fall right back into the same situation they are in now.

[KCPowercat]

For how small a city we are we are a baseball town to support it even at the levels we do. Baseball needs to fix itself and not blame fans for not showing up when they can't even follow them on much of local tv.