Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Closings would include Nichols Rd between Wyandotte and Jefferson, and Broadway would close between 47th and Ward Pkwy. The other streets would stub up to garage or alley entrances, with either planters or bollards to prevent vehicle encroachment into the pedestrian space. From our tally you’d lose roughly 100 street parking spaces, as well as (redundant) access to the Garage adjacent to Starbucks, and the garage behind ice cream bae. No total garage closures here, and overall delivery access is maintained by way of alleyway and garage back door entrances.

Would love for further critiques on the idea! We hope to have the rest of the tenders out and floating in the public realm real soon!

[smh]

I am very supportive of this idea. But I think activating Nichols Road is crucial to the success of pedestrianizing the street. The worst thing that could happen is a street that feels dead or attracts anti-social behavior leading to the undoing of the project.

If you were going to Day 1 build new apartments above the shops, I'd be less concerned. But understanding that is a pie-in-the-sky idea (at least for now), you will need to think hard about what can be added along Nichols to draw people and entice them to stay a while. The shops are great attractors of course, but only until about 6pm. A concern you will hear is that you're just creating more space for Hijinks-Oriented Teens (HOTs). You can help reduce that likelihood by offering more reasons for people other than HOTs to be there in non-shopping hours. In my mind this is seating, excellent landscaping and paving materials choices, but also things like food kiosks in the center (today the turn lane) of Nichols to help break up the wide ROW and give people a reason to stroll along, grab a snack or meal, and sit for a while.

As sexy as the fountain is, I don't think it is realistic. Fountains are expensive to maintain even though they're fun to be around. What could take its place in the plan?

This is good stuff, is clearly inspiring a conversation and may ultimately lead to real change. Time to think through some of the additional details. Keep up the good work.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I am very supportive of this idea. But I think activating Nichols Road is crucial to the success of pedestrianizing the street. The worst thing that could happen is a street that feels dead or attracts anti-social behavior leading to the undoing of the project.

If you were going to Day 1 build new apartments above the shops, I'd be less concerned. But understanding that is a pie-in-the-sky idea (at least for now), you will need to think hard about what can be added along Nichols to draw people and entice them to stay a while. The shops are great attractors of course, but only until about 6pm. A concern you will hear is that you're just creating more space for Hijinks-Oriented Teens (HOTs). You can help reduce that likelihood by offering more reasons for people other than HOTs to be there in non-shopping hours. In my mind this is seating, excellent landscaping and paving materials choices, but also things like food kiosks in the center (today the turn lane) of Nichols to help break up the wide ROW and give people a reason to stroll along, grab a snack or meal, and sit for a while.

As sexy as the fountain is, I don't think it is realistic. Fountains are expensive to maintain even though they're fun to be around. What could take its place in the plan?

This is good stuff, is clearly inspiring a conversation and may ultimately lead to real change. Time to think through some of the additional details. Keep up the good work.

All great points, and many we have deliberated more than our team would care to admit

A huge hinge point to this entire endeavor would be the amount of buy in we’d have from Taubman. They seem uninterested in meeting with our team (or even emailing us back for that matter) so we can’t speak to their piece of the puzzle. We agree though that central activation is key. Kiosks, small stands/stalls and frequent activity and engagement in the district is key.

While we also understand the difficulties of a fountain, we figure that the reduced maintenance liability from the road space being replaced would offset any public fountain maintenance.

Any other issues y’all can think of send them my way!

[smh]

One other thought: While the focus is Nichols, it would be worth expanding this in the future to think about connections beyond the Plaza into the surrounding neighborhoods. How do we improve pedestrian and bicycle connectivity to Brush Creek, West Plaza, North Plaza (is that a thing or do I just mean Westport?) Today, all of the streets surrounding the Plaza cut off the shopping area from the surrounding residents (some much more egregiously than others). Without creeping your scope too much, I guess the first one I'd look at (because it is visible in your rendering) is the connection across Ward Parkway to Brush Creek at Wornall. Maybe a good opportunity for a raised intersection.

[moderne]

I would do this in phases with caution. I have visions of all the sixties and seventies pedestrianized downtowns that were killed off when this was done. Most of these were eventually reopened to autos, such as in Atchison.

[Cratedigger]

I wonder what the best phased approach would be?

Maybe start with Nichols between Penn and Broadway/Wornall? That CCB Drive through area would be the perfect place for a European style courtyard restaurant.

[Highlander]

I would do this in phases with caution. I have visions of all the sixties and seventies pedestrianized downtowns that were killed off when this was done. Most of these were eventually reopened to autos, such as in Atchison.

I get what you are saying but some pedestrian streets have worked very well (e.g. Boulder CO). The difference here is that Nichols doesn't generally have all that much traffic anyway and Ward Parkway and 47th Street carries the bulk of the traffic. Closing Wornall, however, might be more of an issue. I do think there should be a redistribution of businesses if this does happen with more restaurants being placed on JC Nichols Road to take advantage of the outdoor seatings possibilities.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0180791 ... ?entry=ttu

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I would do this in phases with caution. I have visions of all the sixties and seventies pedestrianized downtowns that were killed off when this was done. Most of these were eventually reopened to autos, such as in Atchison.

While I understand your point, a town of 10,000 isn’t quite the best example in failures for this context of the Plaza.

[bobthebiker]

I know we've all shit on Taubman either outspoken or in our heads but if they fail to get behind a proposal to pedestrianize even a portion of Nichols then they're effectively a lost cause (which many have thought for a long time).

The best thing the plaza in my opinion has going for it is it's "sense of place", manufactured or not. The car activity on the plaza actively takes away from that. Creating places where people want to be will far outweigh the few suburbanites that won't come anymore because "it's too confusing", "there's nowhere to park" or otherwise.

I think restaurants and outdoor restaurant activity will be key to keeping the area "feeling safe" if there is no formal programming.

Has Urban Lab reached out to the Plaza Area Council? They seem to have at least talked to Taubman and might be able to facilitate a meeting.

The Plaza Area Council meeting I went to last year, most of top "wants" involved lessening the plaza of cars. Based on that they would likely support this effort as well.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I know we've all shit on Taubman either outspoken or in our heads but if they fail to get behind a proposal to pedestrianize even a portion of Nichols then they're effectively a lost cause (which many have thought for a long time).

The best thing the plaza in my opinion has going for it is it's "sense of place", manufactured or not. The car activity on the plaza actively takes away from that. Creating places where people want to be will far outweigh the few suburbanites that won't come anymore because "it's too confusing", "there's nowhere to park" or otherwise.

I think restaurants and outdoor restaurant activity will be key to keeping the area "feeling safe" if there is no formal programming.

Has Urban Lab reached out to the Plaza Area Council? They seem to have at least talked to Taubman and might be able to facilitate a meeting.

The Plaza Area Council meeting I went to last year, most of top "wants" involved lessening the plaza of cars. Based on that they would likely support this effort as well.

We’ve reached out o I believe one member, but have done nothing formally. Will maybe try and get something on that from to at least start a bridge of communication.

[horizons82]

While I understand your point, a town of 10,000 isn’t quite the best example in failures for this context of the Plaza.

It's not just Atchison. The pedestrian mall movement was popular in a lot of spots in the 60s/70s. A comparable example to the plaza could be K Street in Sacramento, which ended up reintroducing vehicles roughly 10 years ago. Here's an article from that time:

https://www.cp-dr.com/articles/node-3067

A key passage from the article:

"It's not enough for a city to simply close a portion of its streets to vehicular traffic; the land uses and streetscape must be reconsidered to accommodate pedestrian activity and safety," said Jessica Schmidt, a planner who has conducted research on pedestrian malls."

CityBeautiful has a very well researched and balanced study on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tg9IMCKa5M

Nichols Rd has a lot going for it to be successful, but the city and the plaza will need to be prepared to pony up some cash for streetscape and programming. Otherwise, it could get hairy.

[Highlander]

While I understand your point, a town of 10,000 isn’t quite the best example in failures for this context of the Plaza.

It's not just Atchison. The pedestrian mall movement was popular in a lot of spots in the 60s/70s. A comparable example to the plaza could be K Street in Sacramento, which ended up reintroducing vehicles roughly 10 years ago. Here's an article from that time:

https://www.cp-dr.com/articles/node-3067

A key passage from the article:

"It's not enough for a city to simply close a portion of its streets to vehicular traffic; the land uses and streetscape must be reconsidered to accommodate pedestrian activity and safety," said Jessica Schmidt, a planner who has conducted research on pedestrian malls."

CityBeautiful has a very well researched and balanced study on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tg9IMCKa5M

Nichols Rd has a lot going for it to be successful, but the city and the plaza will need to be prepared to pony up some cash for streetscape and programming. Otherwise, it could get hairy.

I watched the video. Not sure the Plaza would fall into his high risk category for downtown pedestrian malls. First and foremost, for all the problems the Plaza has had, it's not failing. It's certainly having a downturn in terms of retail but it still generates a lot of foot traffic and the restaurant scene does well. That foot traffic should increase when the street car extension becomes operational. Secondly, there is a ton of parking available on the Plaza and only a tiny fraction would ever be removed by pedestrianizing JC Nichols which already carries very little traffic. I cannot see anyone not going to the Plaza because JC Nichols road became pedestrianized. Nothing changes in terms of accessibility. Third, the reason downtown pedestrian malls failed really had nothing to with the actual malls. The malls didn't cause the failure, rather the malls failed to arrest the already significant loss of downtown business to the burbs.

I've written about this before here that the demographic center of KC's wealth has shifted further and further south making it more difficult to the Plaza to compete for high end retail. But the Plaza still has a considerable amount of wealthy and upper middle class people in the immediate area and the north and west parts of the Plaza are gentrifying faster than anywhere in KC. It may not enough to maintain the Plaza as the city's top shopping area for high end goods but it should remain a more than viable shopping area and still maintain a unique urbane feel that attracts people from outside its immediate area.

[beautyfromashes]

I’m more worried about the pedestrian connection between the streetcar stop and the district. It’s great to have a pedestrian only area, but you have to get people into it or the businesses will scream and holler. If the city is going to spend money on streetscape and pedestrian changes, the Main St and Mill Creek crossings need to be a major priority.

[dukuboy1]

Cool plan, & I like how they leave 2 major E/W streets open all the way through the district & allow for traffic into the garages but the rest are closed off to allow for the pedestrian mall. Kind of a similar plan for traffic when the Art Fair is going on

[langosta]

I’m more worried about the pedestrian connection between the streetcar stop and the district. It’s great to have a pedestrian only area, but you have to get people into it or the businesses will scream and holler. If the city is going to spend money on streetscape and pedestrian changes, the Main St and Mill Creek crossings need to be a major priority.

Some might say we need active store fronts along this walking route. Ie Plaza Tennis

[beautyfromashes]

I’m more worried about the pedestrian connection between the streetcar stop and the district. It’s great to have a pedestrian only area, but you have to get people into it or the businesses will scream and holler. If the city is going to spend money on streetscape and pedestrian changes, the Main St and Mill Creek crossings need to be a major priority.

Some might say we need active store fronts along this walking route. Ie Plaza Tennis

Yes, the redevelopment of the tennis courts as a connection between the Plaza and streetcar stop would be ideal. I just don’t ever see that happening. I’d settle for a change of the Main and 47th intersection with more pedestrian area between the two. Widen the sidewalks significantly, trees and a safer feel for people crossing- basically a red carpet to The Plaza.

[DaveKCMO]

I am very supportive of this idea. But I think activating Nichols Road is crucial to the success of pedestrianizing the street. The worst thing that could happen is a street that feels dead or attracts anti-social behavior leading to the undoing of the project.

It's Kansas City and this is a very real possibility.

[TheUrbanRoo]

As sexy as the fountain is, I don't think it is realistic. Fountains are expensive to maintain even though they're fun to be around. What could take its place in the plan?

The fountain in the centerpiece is what makes this an actual draw & destination even more than the Plaza already is. This is the city of fountains, we're doing it.

[smh]

I am very supportive of this idea. But I think activating Nichols Road is crucial to the success of pedestrianizing the street. The worst thing that could happen is a street that feels dead or attracts anti-social behavior leading to the undoing of the project.

It's Kansas City and this is a very real possibility.

Right? Execution will be huge.

[MidtownCat]

If only we would have started to be proactive about this 10 years ago when the troubling signs of the decline started to present themselves.

I’m concerned the Plaza is reaching a point of no return.