Downtown Baseball Stadium

[dukuboy1]

Already both teams are talking about extending the sales tax for 40 years so it would appear the teams are looking for a much bigger taxpayer subsidy than in the past. Having a full roof over the stadiums will be costly. Do the benefits outweigh the cost? I seriously doubt it. Having a partial roof over the stadiums makes more sense and is way less expensive, for the taxpayers and teams.
Any really, what is the reality of hosting a Super Bowl or Final Four?

the reality is there and we have leaders in place who know how to get it done in the sports world. Go back 10 years and ask the question. What is the reality of the NFL draft coming to KC? What is the reality of the World Cup coming to KC?.....

[aknowledgeableperson]

"Hell, look at everyone who says they do not want a downtown baseball stadium. Yet that is happening despite their grievances."

Hasn't become reality at this point in time.

[phuqueue]

I just think it is very shortsighted to not be considering it.

We literally voted on it for the last renovation and it was rejected. It has been considered, and to the extent that people are talking about it now, it is on some level being considered again, but it seems like it just isn't wanted.

Voted on as a rolling roof, and as part of renovation dollars. An entirely new stadium with it as part of the design could be a whole new ballgame. Plus if the owners want it, which they don't it seems, it could be added despite what fans may want. The general public is typically set in their ways and do not want certain things to change. Hell, look at everyone who says they do not want a downtown baseball stadium. Yet that is happening despite their grievances. Once it is built and they enjoy it they will wonder why they were opposed. If we based developments & other big picture ideas on public sentiment alone we would be in a very different and unadvanced society for sure. Not saying what we have is perfect, nor will it ever be but we are way before off overall than say 200 years ago

The rolling roof would have been much cheaper than what you're proposing and would have secured KC what is apparently the main goal of adding a roof, which is hosting a Super Bowl, and voters still rejected it. Unlike back then, now there isn't even the promise that KC will host the game, there is just a vague assumption that the NFL will eventually give us one.

At this point, I'm not really sure what you're even arguing -- that ownership, which you acknowledge does not seem to want a roof, could force a roof to be added if they did want it, whether voters wanted it or not, which they also seemingly don't? And that the Clark Hunts of the world forcing the rest of us to take our medicine (though in this case, it seems Clark Hunt himself does not want that) is why we are better off than 200 years ago? You are losing the plot here.

[langosta]

Rolling roof conversation seems off base. Think of it as adding a 70,000 seat to the convention center. It goes beyond holding the Super Bowl. The cities with modern roofed stadiums regularly use them as convention center assets. Even St Louis's dilapidated stadium!

[Highlander]

Already both teams are talking about extending the sales tax for 40 years so it would appear the teams are looking for a much bigger taxpayer subsidy than in the past. Having a full roof over the stadiums will be costly. Do the benefits outweigh the cost? I seriously doubt it. Having a partial roof over the stadiums makes more sense and is way less expensive, for the taxpayers and teams.
Any really, what is the reality of hosting a Super Bowl or Final Four?

the reality is there and we have leaders in place who know how to get it done in the sports world. Go back 10 years and ask the question. What is the reality of the NFL draft coming to KC? What is the reality of the World Cup coming to KC?.....

KC would absolutely get a Final Four. No doubt about that. KC has an excellent reputation as a basketball host and venue and having an elite basketball school in the neighborhood doesn't hurt. The way the NFL draft went down, I suspect KC would also get a superbowl eventually. I don't know if either of these events justify a roof though. I think that has to play out on its own merits and there are other things on the want list that are higher priorities (like just getting the DT stadium done).

[langosta]

Already both teams are talking about extending the sales tax for 40 years so it would appear the teams are looking for a much bigger taxpayer subsidy than in the past. Having a full roof over the stadiums will be costly. Do the benefits outweigh the cost? I seriously doubt it. Having a partial roof over the stadiums makes more sense and is way less expensive, for the taxpayers and teams.
Any really, what is the reality of hosting a Super Bowl or Final Four?

the reality is there and we have leaders in place who know how to get it done in the sports world. Go back 10 years and ask the question. What is the reality of the NFL draft coming to KC? What is the reality of the World Cup coming to KC?.....

KC would absolutely get a Final Four. No doubt about that. KC has an excellent reputation as a basketball host and venue and having an elite basketball school in the neighborhood doesn't hurt. The way the NFL draft went down, I suspect KC would also get a superbowl eventually. I don't know if either of these events justify a roof though. I think that has to play out on its own merits and there are other things on the want list that are higher priorities (like just getting the DT stadium done).

Not at Arrowhead. Think it only happens if you have a roof + near downtown

[Highlander]

the reality is there and we have leaders in place who know how to get it done in the sports world. Go back 10 years and ask the question. What is the reality of the NFL draft coming to KC? What is the reality of the World Cup coming to KC?.....

KC would absolutely get a Final Four. No doubt about that. KC has an excellent reputation as a basketball host and venue and having an elite basketball school in the neighborhood doesn't hurt. The way the NFL draft went down, I suspect KC would also get a superbowl eventually. I don't know if either of these events justify a roof though. I think that has to play out on its own merits and there are other things on the want list that are higher priorities (like just getting the DT stadium done).

Not at Arrowhead. Think it only happens if you have a roof + near downtown

Maybe. Houston has hosted the NCAA Final Four twice in recent years despite their covered stadium not being downtown (although there is light rail access).

[phuqueue]

Rolling roof conversation seems off base. Think of it as adding a 70,000 seat to the convention center. It goes beyond holding the Super Bowl. The cities with modern roofed stadiums regularly use them as convention center assets. Even St Louis's dilapidated stadium!

If you're adding convention business to the list of roof pros, though, then you're not just talking about building a roofed stadium, you are probably talking about building a roofed stadium downtown. I doubt there would be a lot of demand for a giant convention center at the TSC, whether Arrowhead had a roof or not (but, fair point, the rolling roof wouldn't have worked for conventions even if there was otherwise demand for it). To the narrower points dukuboy made that the roof isn't getting fair consideration or that people will regret not having built the roof in a few years, I think the rolling roof episode is a reasonable counterpoint. Outside of this board, it doesn't seem like there are any real conversations happening about moving the Chiefs downtown, so the possibility of also using the stadium as a convention center is at best a relatively minor consideration.

My perspective is that Arrowhead's core use is as an NFL team's home stadium, and any renovation or replacement should be designed with that as primary focus. How much extra money are you willing to spend and how much are you willing to alter the gameday experience to put a roof on it in pursuit of one-off events like the Super Bowl or a Final Four? If you add convention business to the mix and also relocate the stadium, how much are you willing to damage the existing urban fabric and/or prevent the emergence of a real neighborhood in a denser (or potentially denser) part of the city (on top of also the added cost of building there instead of renovating or building new at the TSC)? Are those costs worth it? My kneejerk reaction is that they probably aren't, but I guess I'm open to learning that they actually are.

[dukuboy1]

We literally voted on it for the last renovation and it was rejected. It has been considered, and to the extent that people are talking about it now, it is on some level being considered again, but it seems like it just isn't wanted.

Voted on as a rolling roof, and as part of renovation dollars. An entirely new stadium with it as part of the design could be a whole new ballgame. Plus if the owners want it, which they don't it seems, it could be added despite what fans may want. The general public is typically set in their ways and do not want certain things to change. Hell, look at everyone who says they do not want a downtown baseball stadium. Yet that is happening despite their grievances. Once it is built and they enjoy it they will wonder why they were opposed. If we based developments & other big picture ideas on public sentiment alone we would be in a very different and unadvanced society for sure. Not saying what we have is perfect, nor will it ever be but we are way before off overall than say 200 years ago

The rolling roof would have been much cheaper than what you're proposing and would have secured KC what is apparently the main goal of adding a roof, which is hosting a Super Bowl, and voters still rejected it. Unlike back then, now there isn't even the promise that KC will host the game, there is just a vague assumption that the NFL will eventually give us one.

At this point, I'm not really sure what you're even arguing -- that ownership, which you acknowledge does not seem to want a roof, could force a roof to be added if they did want it, whether voters wanted it or not, which they also seemingly don't? And that the Clark Hunts of the world forcing the rest of us to take our medicine (though in this case, it seems Clark Hunt himself does not want that) is why we are better off than 200 years ago? You are losing the plot here.

Point is not adding a roof of some kind to a brand new Arrowhead stadium would be a huge miss & shortsighted. But I’m done discussing at this point. Until they get closer to something tangible in terms of what they want to do we can debate. My comments should be valid along with the analogies. Good discussion though

[langosta]

Manfred in town today. Clay County commissioners tweeted they are meeting with him. Iirc, Mayor Q is off to DC today.

[dnweava]

Manfred in town today. Clay County commissioners tweeted they are meeting with him. Iirc, Mayor Q is off to DC today.

The royals in NKC is such a dumb idea. The royals must be scared the Jackson co vote will fail.

[TheSmokinPun]

Manfred would want the thing off 151st in JoCo.

[Chris Stritzel]

Manfred in town today. Clay County commissioners tweeted they are meeting with him. Iirc, Mayor Q is off to DC today.

The question that lingers over the head of the NorthKC Stadium site is funding. It will always come back to that. East Village is still strongly preferred and concerns over Jackson County voters denying the renewal of the tax are unfound. Clay County commissioner Jason Withington seems like a good guy who wants what's best for his county, but I have yet to see anyone press him on how the county funding mechanism will work. We know how it'll work in Jackson County, but what about ClayCo? How much money will need to be spent on buying out other properties and demolishing them to widen roads? How much money will be spent on reworking the roads for traffic flow? Are NorthKC residents even in favor of the Royals coming into their community? Has a % been given to the countywide tax for this? Etc, etc, etc.

[alejandro46]

Manfred in town today. Clay County commissioners tweeted they are meeting with him. Iirc, Mayor Q is off to DC today.

The question that lingers over the head of the NorthKC Stadium site is funding. It will always come back to that. East Village is still strongly preferred and concerns over Jackson County voters denying the renewal of the tax are unfound. Clay County commissioner Jason Withington seems like a good guy who wants what's best for his county, but I have yet to see anyone press him on how the county funding mechanism will work. We know how it'll work in Jackson County, but what about ClayCo? How much money will need to be spent on buying out other properties and demolishing them to widen roads? How much money will be spent on reworking the roads for traffic flow? Are NorthKC residents even in favor of the Royals coming into their community? Has a % been given to the countywide tax for this? Etc, etc, etc.

The numbers just straight up don’t add up unless much more private funding is in play be EV site. Clay county is too small and it’s not like a tax is a sure thing to pass either. Clays property taxes are already very high.

[Cratedigger]

Heard from someone in the ownership group that the NKC development is $500 million dollars cheaper than EV. Not sure details on if that comes from the follow on development or infrastructure costs or what.

I think EV is still the dream for Sherman and the group, but $500 million is a lot of money…

[Rusty Irish]

Heard from someone in the ownership group that the NKC development is $500 million dollars cheaper than EV. Not sure details on if that comes from the follow on development or infrastructure costs or what.

I think EV is still the dream for Sherman and the group, but $500 million is a lot of money…

They were saying on 610 this morning that a "good source" (take that with a pinch of salt) says that he puts Clay County as the 60/40 favorite just now and also stated Manfred only met with Clay County officials and not Jackson County.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Heard from someone in the ownership group that the NKC development is $500 million dollars cheaper than EV. Not sure details on if that comes from the follow on development or infrastructure costs or what.

I think EV is still the dream for Sherman and the group, but $500 million is a lot of money…

They were saying on 610 this morning that a "good source" (take that with a pinch of salt) says that he puts Clay County as the 60/40 favorite just now and also stated Manfred only met with Clay County officials and not Jackson County.

If that’s the case then we’re truly screwed.

[TheSmokinPun]

There is no way it's $500 million less, especially since they'd have to outright transform that entire neighborhood into something else.

[GRID]

Heard from someone in the ownership group that the NKC development is $500 million dollars cheaper than EV. Not sure details on if that comes from the follow on development or infrastructure costs or what.

I think EV is still the dream for Sherman and the group, but $500 million is a lot of money…

They were saying on 610 this morning that a "good source" (take that with a pinch of salt) says that he puts Clay County as the 60/40 favorite just now and also stated Manfred only met with Clay County officials and not Jackson County.

why why why why why why why....

Good god. Just keep it where it is.

I can see it now. KC will end up with a very cheap minor league feeling stadium in NKC.

Why would you not move the stadium downtown if you are going to move it. I really hope KC doesn't do this, but I also think it's a very real possibility based on past decisions (as recent as the Cerner campus etc).

[langosta]

Heard from someone in the ownership group that the NKC development is $500 million dollars cheaper than EV. Not sure details on if that comes from the follow on development or infrastructure costs or what.

I think EV is still the dream for Sherman and the group, but $500 million is a lot of money…

They were saying on 610 this morning that a "good source" (take that with a pinch of salt) says that he puts Clay County as the 60/40 favorite just now and also stated Manfred only met with Clay County officials and not Jackson County.

If that’s the case then we’re truly screwed.

The mayor went to DC yesterday to celebrate the anniversary of some legislation.