Downtown Baseball Stadium

[Critical_Mass]

I just think Crossroads would be exceptional because one of the very rare downtown stadiums that isn't hindered by a highway or giants surface lots on any side of it.

It's walkable and dense all the way around and through with great buildings. You couldn't create something like that in EV even if you tried. Most stadium sites like are like EV though, which is why the Xroads would put us in the next level- having real (not perceived like most) density right around the stadium.

Even in Denver they have density behind home plate- but behind the outfield is nothing. In Cleveland its nice behind the outfield- but behind home plate is nothing but highways. Etc. etc. We can be one of the rare few that has a completely dense stadium.

The Crossroads site has highways on two sides. Did I miss something.

One’s gonna be capped, and the other is not close enough at all to make an impact on that stadium.

When I say other stadiums have highways, I mean they are literally like right on the stadium almost. These won’t have that affect.

East Crossroads site suffers from having the Star printing press building cutting it off from the activity of the Crossroads to the west. That's a big reason the area isn't more vibrant currently. If they level 6 blocks of the area for a stadium it too will be isolated unless they can work with the owner to at minimum cut the printing press building in half to connect 16th st back to oak so people can walk to it from the Kauffman streetcar stop (on 16th).
But you don't need a stadium to do that. Reintroduce the grid by bringing 16th Street back, add a couple apartment buildings and you've got a reactivated area equal in size to the current hot spot along 18th Street to the south.

[im2kull]

The Atlanta project is suburban. The reason we haven't seen as many urban models these days is because there are none left to do- most were completed in 90's & 2000's. All the messed up stadiums from 70's have been rectified...except Kansas City & maybe Anaheim.

Excuse me? Man, you really are so young and uneducated on certain subjects and it shows terribly at times. Kauffman was THE model stadium for the last 50 years and it BROKE every rule and mold of stadium design in the 70's. That's why it's here. It was THE trailblazer and future model of what "to do". Everything else was demolished from the pre 90's because everything else was cookie cutter indoor/outdoor round stadiums. The round cookie cutter era was terrible from the get go and have all been demolished as such. If you didn't know that before, you do now. Kauffman isn't and wasn't messed up. LOL. It's here because it was the only stadium built that wasn't messed up.

[KCPowercat]

It's walkable and dense all the way around and through with great buildings.

The plan would literally tear out what you claim is such a benefit.

[AlkaliAxel]

The Atlanta project is suburban. The reason we haven't seen as many urban models these days is because there are none left to do- most were completed in 90's & 2000's. All the messed up stadiums from 70's have been rectified...except Kansas City & maybe Anaheim.

Excuse me? Man, you really are so young and uneducated on certain subjects and it shows terribly at times. Kauffman was THE model stadium for the last 50 years and it BROKE every rule and mold of stadium design in the 70's. That's why it's here. It was THE trailblazer and future model of what "to do". Everything else was demolished from the pre 90's because everything else was cookie cutter indoor/outdoor round stadiums. The round cookie cutter era was terrible from the get go and have all been demolished as such. If you didn't know that before, you do now. Kauffman isn't and wasn't messed up. LOL. It's here because it was the only stadium built that wasn't messed up.

You can calm down because you're not even on the same page here. The suburban idea of stadiums for "convenience" rapidly declined in the 90's & onwards, starting with Baltimore. Kauffman never got in that wave like most every other city did...

[normalthings]

The Atlanta project is suburban. The reason we haven't seen as many urban models these days is because there are none left to do- most were completed in 90's & 2000's. All the messed up stadiums from 70's have been rectified...except Kansas City & maybe Anaheim.

Excuse me? Man, you really are so young and uneducated on certain subjects and it shows terribly at times. Kauffman was THE model stadium for the last 50 years and it BROKE every rule and mold of stadium design in the 70's. That's why it's here. It was THE trailblazer and future model of what "to do". Everything else was demolished from the pre 90's because everything else was cookie cutter indoor/outdoor round stadiums. The round cookie cutter era was terrible from the get go and have all been demolished as such. If you didn't know that before, you do now. Kauffman isn't and wasn't messed up. LOL. It's here because it was the only stadium built that wasn't messed up.

Calm down he’s a student

[AlkaliAxel]

Calm down he’s a student

Your entire schtick is to attack anything I ever post to try make yourself feel smart. You do it literally every single day on my posts. Go graze somewhere else for once.

[AlkaliAxel]

It's walkable and dense all the way around and through with great buildings.

The plan would literally tear out what you claim is such a benefit.

Most of it would still be intact. I did a walk around what would be the area of the stadium and it still would maintain its character around the entire stadium. I assume infill would come as well which would make the Xroads even better. I just think it would be more Wrigley/Fenway than Ballpark Village StL. This injection into the Crossroads could put it on par with River Market IMO.

I get why you & others are against this site, but I think it would end up better than what is being said

[KCPowercat]

The infill is already happening would be a shame to rip that out especially when there is no real benefit of this location.

[AlkaliAxel]

The infill is already happening would be a shame to rip that out especially when there is no real benefit of this location.

You don't think a stadium would speed that up? I bet it would

[Critical_Mass]

It's walkable and dense all the way around and through with great buildings.

The plan would literally tear out what you claim is such a benefit.

Most of it would still be intact. I did a walk around what would be the area of the stadium and it still would maintain its character around the entire stadium. I assume infill would come as well which would make the Xroads even better. I just think it would be more Wrigley/Fenway than Ballpark Village StL. This injection into the Crossroads could put it on par with River Market IMO.

I get why you & others are against this site, but I think it would end up better than what is being said

Dude, it will not be 'intact' it will be removed. All that will be left is only the most successfully redeveloped part centered around 18th street. That success has bled northwards to the area in question. After removing everything for the six blocks, Oak to Holmes, 15th to 17th, you will be left with crap on three sides:

• Former Star printing press on the West. It's a two block long BLANK WALL...possibly modified into something different if this happens?

• Truman road sewer and interstate highway trench on the North. Possibly capped over?

• Mostly industrial garbage to the East.

[AlkaliAxel]

• Former Star printing press on the West. It's a two block long BLANK WALL...possibly modified into something different if this happens?

• Truman road sewer and interstate highway trench on the North. Possibly capped over?

• Mostly industrial garbage to the East.

Oh, see that's not the boundaries I'm thinking of. Holmes isn't even close. I'm basing it off what KCDowntown was proposing.

First of all, forget about the printing press- if we build a stadium there just tear that down and build over it.

Grand to Oak/Locust, Truman to 17th- this is 4 blocks and most of it is surface lot or the Star building. So most everything else stays intact. We shouldn't even need to go beyond half of Locust block- keep the buildings intact beyond there.

[alejandro46]

I feel like I am getting contradicting viewpoints - is the EV going to just develop organically if the stadium doesn't come there, or is it giong to come there and then not be able to develop organically? I mean, clearly the conglomerate that owns it now is holding out for the team's decision. However, I don't necessarially think that the area won't develop because the Royals move there. The team is going to be able to work with the city to build developments surrounding the stadium and I don't think it would materially impact PNL, clearly an extra 10k+ fans attending a game downtown can't hurt them. Would there be lower-rise residential component without a stadium?

Now we are talking hypotheticals here, and impossible to know, but we can only hope that there would be a higher level of visibility with a MLB component involved that could spur taller and more dense spin off development without hurting PNL. The city has a big stake in the financial success of PNL district, so the last thing they would wnat would be to replicate that versus help connect it to any potential new stadium .

[DColeKC]

I feel like I am getting contradicting viewpoints - is the EV going to just develop organically if the stadium doesn't come there, or is it giong to come there and then not be able to develop organically? I mean, clearly the conglomerate that owns it now is holding out for the team's decision. However, I don't necessarially think that the area won't develop because the Royals move there. The team is going to be able to work with the city to build developments surrounding the stadium and I don't think it would materially impact PNL, clearly an extra 10k+ fans attending a game downtown can't hurt them. Would there be lower-rise residential component without a stadium?

Now we are talking hypotheticals here, and impossible to know, but we can only hope that there would be a higher level of visibility with a MLB component involved that could spur taller and more dense spin off development without hurting PNL. The city has a big stake in the financial success of PNL district, so the last thing they would wnat would be to replicate that versus help connect it to any potential new stadium .

I’m confident when I say this. The EV site would involve royals ownership group buying and controlling all available land. They would construct the commercial leasing spaces, residential units and manage them. They could contract a 3rd party of even partner with a developer with more experience in these areas but that means they share revenue. In my opinion while EV is easiest it doesn’t mean the best overall result taking into consideration all major factors. Including what’s needed to demolish.

Best chance to have things grow organically is to put the stadium where it fits in the tightest so on opening day it’s already surrounded by existing buildings with tenants. Those land owners instantly see a property value increase and many of the buildings that have been sitting vacant become more in demand.

Not popular on here but I’m even in favor of it going on grand and demolishing the printing press building. The stretch of buildings on grand including the strip club and cigar box looks like utter crap. Even the exterior signage looks run down and not something you’d expect to see in the heart of downtown. It honesty isn’t representative of the crossroads overall yet it’s front and center.

[shinatoo]

Whatever they build I want something super modern. Like euro football modern. Light, soaring, translucent and a lighting showplace at night.

[DColeKC]

Whatever they build I want something super modern. Like euro football modern. Light, soaring, translucent and a lighting showplace at night.

I feel that for a football stadium but it’s hard to beat the traditional brick and iron look for downtown baseball.

[Critical_Mass]

Oh, see that's not the boundaries I'm thinking of. Holmes isn't even close. I'm basing it off what KCDowntown was proposing.

First of all, forget about the printing press- if we build a stadium there just tear that down and build over it.

Grand to Oak/Locust, Truman to 17th- this is 4 blocks and most of it is surface lot or the Star building. So most everything else stays intact. We shouldn't even need to go beyond half of Locust block- keep the buildings intact beyond there.

We are discussing the boundaries of the two new stadium locations very clearly described in the recent Business Journal article which spawned this entire discussion:



DCole has already said 'site 1' in yellow is not the one being looked at seriously and was being promoted by the owner of the printing press building and little else. That leaves us with 'site 2' in cyan which we have all been discussing as the East Crossroads location. So, yes, it goes from Oak to the alley almost to Holmes, 15th to 17th. Oak Street is not going anywhere, I imagine. So everything I mentioned about the site being surrounded by crap on 3 sides is valid.

[AlkaliAxel]

Not popular on here but I’m even in favor of it going on grand and demolishing the printing press building.

I don't think that's a bad take at all. That building adds nothing. One could argue that removing it would actually add more to the character of the area. Keeping it would also mean raking down more buildings to the east instead.

[Critical_Mass]

Not popular on here but I’m even in favor of it going on grand and demolishing the printing press building. The stretch of buildings on grand including the strip club and cigar box looks like utter crap. Even the exterior signage looks run down and not something you’d expect to see in the heart of downtown. It honesty isn’t representative of the crossroads overall yet it’s front and center.

Is that site even wide enough? Seems about the same width as the Washington Square Park site discussed previously. I just cannot see the city vacating Oak street.

[AlkaliAxel]

We are discussing the boundaries of the two new stadium locations very clearly described in the recent Business Journal article which spawned this entire discussion:



DCole has already said 'site 1' in yellow is not the one being looked at seriously and was being promoted by the owner of the printing press building and little else. That leaves us with 'site 2' in cyan which we have all been discussing as the East Crossroads location. So, yes, it goes from Oak to the alley almost to Holmes, 15th to 17th. Oak Street is not going anywhere, I imagine. So everything I mentioned about the site being surrounded by crap on 3 sides is valid.

The yellow site would be the best spot in the city for a stadium. That's the one I'm referring to. Would have a wonderfully urban feel 360 around it.

The blue site would be an absolute disgrace. Fuck no. If you're gonna do the blue boundaries and tear down all that culture just to prop up the shitty anti-pedestrian KC Star building then just go to EV!

Hell, on the the blue site you wouldn't even be able to utilize any 670 cap. Yet again, another plus for the yellow site. Want one more? The skyline view would be significantly better from yellow site. This is a no brainer between those two spots.

[alejandro46]

I agree that the Yellow site would be best between the two, as the KC Star building is not particularly significant, and although it would be a waste, I don't think many would shed a tear. However, I am not sure if it's wide enough and since it sounds like only blue is being considered, I agree that site is not really feasable, just too many seperate property owners and historic buildings there.

East Crossroads has been developing really strongly in the past couple years especially breweries. Doubleshift, Border, Mission Taco/ITap, City Barrel . I expect development of these lots when pared in improvement in walking infrastrucutre especially around I-35 connecting to NLBM (which we have discussed on this forum before) to continue whether or not there is a baseball stadium. The more development occurs, the more expensive land acquisition will be, and tbh I think that ship has probably already sailed about 5-10 years ago.

If you were cost factoring in capping 670 for a new Kauffman anyways, can I interest you in another highway that also could use a nice burial and/or re-design just to the North East of there.