New Chiefs Stadium

[AlkaliAxel]

The problem is how are the Chiefs gonna build an entertainment complex at TSC where nobody will visit it 355 days a year.

Atleast at the Legends, there’s some nearby people shopping all the time who could use it and spend some year round. Won’t happen at TSC.

They are not. If they build anything, it would be mixed use like hotel, their own office building, practice facility, maybe develop some apartments or something, but I doubt that.

The Chiefs ARE the entertainment. Adding a couple of sports bars outside the stadium would be a waste. Look at Philly Live at the Philly sports complex. It's stupid as hell and useless unless a game is going on. The teams just staff it for games just like the restaurants inside the stadiums. It's basically just an extension of the overpriced stadium food into the parking lot. But that's all that will work next to massive single use stadiums.

If that’s all they’re aiming for then move the stadium anywhere else. If it’s just about the stadium…then can we pick a spot that’s really good? I bet they’re gonna build an amazing stadium…and it would look so much better near the city. Not that crappy complex. Come on GRID, endorse the city idea!

[TheLastGentleman]

Weren't the stockyards still active when initial planning started for TSC?

Good point, they definitely were

[GRID]

The problem is how are the Chiefs gonna build an entertainment complex at TSC where nobody will visit it 355 days a year.

Atleast at the Legends, there’s some nearby people shopping all the time who could use it and spend some year round. Won’t happen at TSC.

They are not. If they build anything, it would be mixed use like hotel, their own office building, practice facility, maybe develop some apartments or something, but I doubt that.

The Chiefs ARE the entertainment. Adding a couple of sports bars outside the stadium would be a waste. Look at Philly Live at the Philly sports complex. It's stupid as hell and useless unless a game is going on. The teams just staff it for games just like the restaurants inside the stadiums. It's basically just an extension of the overpriced stadium food into the parking lot. But that's all that will work next to massive single use stadiums.

If that’s all they’re aiming for then move the stadium anywhere else. If it’s just about the stadium…then can we pick a spot that’s really good? I bet they’re gonna build an amazing stadium…and it would look so much better near the city. Not that crappy complex. Come on GRID, endorse the city idea!

I'm totally fine with the Chiefs moving to the West Bottoms, but I think that's a pipe dream.

I really don't see the problem with building a new stadium where Kauffman is now and then basically handing over all that land to the Chiefs, including the undeveloped land. The City and County just land bank all that. Used to have the animal control there, it's moved. The KCPD helicopter unit is there and that's about it. They probably kept the land for future municipal uses like that, but it's no longer really needed for that. The jail is being built on Highway 40 etc.

Let the Chiefs dig in there and maybe some decent hotels could go up etc around a world class NFL complex. Maybe add an amphitheater or something. That's all that's needed there.

Concentrate on getting fixed rail transit out there so it's easy to get to and from the stadium. That's what the city and state should do. The Chiefs won't push it because they like the parking revenue, but the TSC is close enough to build transit to from the city. Transit will NEVER go to village west. At least nothing other than a very long bus ride.

[GRID]

Weren't the stockyards still active when initial planning started for TSC?

Good point, they definitely were

That and the WB was an active industrial area at the time. The idea of people living and playing down there was not even a thought back then. Kemper was only built there to serve the American Royal. No other reason and it was basically forced there by the Kempers. Crazy thing is that Kemper arena almost was built at 435 and Metcalf in Overland Park.

I'm glad they didn't build in the WB at that time. They would have bulldozed half of the WB for parking lots as the stock yards were not an option. (sadly fires took half the WB structures instead).

The main reason the stadium went to 435 and 70 was cost. The land was super super cheap at the time for such a massive development.

[AlkaliAxel]

I got a hot take.

What if we made the Chiefs pay partially for transit to downtown- or even just *atleast* a nice transit station on the complex- in exchange for us giving them fucking $900 mil tax dollars. Because otherwise what’s the point of them going to TSC and worrying about it.

The only benefit to TSC is the transit proximity to downtown, so if they can’t even help out with that after giving them tax dollars then they can fuck off

[normalthings]

You get really worked up about things that are far from set in stone.

[FangKC]

Someone mentioned the Chiefs going to the West Bottoms.
I like that idea, centralized, a better downtown view and closer to hotels.
Logistically, the West Bottoms was able to accommodate huge crowds with the American Royal.
What location on the ks side would that work down there?

Why was TSC not put in WB in the first place

Flooding?

The answer is politics. The TSC was financed by Jackson County. To get the political support needed for the County Legislature to approve financing, the support of Eastern Jackson County politicians was crucial. That influence steered the location away from a central location to the more (then) undeveloped east.

I don't think the West Bottoms was ever in contention for a stadium(s). One of the proposed locations near downtown was where the Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts is now. A combination football/baseball domed stadium complex was imagined. While the West Bottoms was likely not desirable because of the stockyards, I would imagine that a location south of Municipal Auditorium was also just as likely to be undesirable then because of the smell of the stockyards (still operating in the late 60s and early 70s).

It's always been my view that it is shocking downtown Kansas City developed as much as it did seeing that the stockyards and meatpacking plants produced a lot of unpleasant odor in a time when office buildings still relied on open windows and fans for cooling in hot summer months. I'm surprised that downtown Kansas City didn't end up around Westport instead (outside the reach of WB odors).





https://kchistory.org/index/planning-k- ... ffset%5D=7

[AlkaliAxel]

You get really worked up about things that are far from set in stone.

Oh right right but nobody else does. Thanks.

[ztonyg]

NFL and MLB stadium locations and needs are different and don't necessarily need to be located in the same place.

For the most part a downtown MLB stadium and a suburban NFL stadium seem to be the best for each sport. Tailgating is a big deal in conjunction with an NFL game (as NFL games are more like day long "events") whereas a MLB game is just part of a day / evening. With baseball one can go to work, catch dinner before the game, and have a nightcap at a bar. With NFL it's generally drive to the game, tailgate, watch the game, and go home.

As much as some here hate to admit it, Village West works best for the NFL type of experience (and it's location in a corner of the metro area doesn't really negatively impact it to the way that it would if the Royals moved there). Basically an NFL stadium can be anywhere within the metro area housing the team and be successful (and probably more successful if it's NOT downtown) whereas MLB (and NBA/NHL) have more limited choices as to where arenas can go. I'm a Detroit Lions fan. Lions fans could tailgate at our old stadium site the Silverdome and attendance never really suffered even when the team was horrible because it was an all day event (at one time the Silverdome had the highest capacity in the NFL). The Lions have moved to downtown Detroit in a stadium that really hasn't done much for revitalizing the city and the overall gameday experience outside of the stadium is subpar as one has to park in a crowded lot blocks away from the stadium (with no space to tailgate) and walk / take a shuttle to the stadium. Therefore, nowadays when the team doesn't play well attendance suffers as it's too much of a pain to watch subpar football whereas before you could get drunk and have burgers outside with friends and 1/2 the time you'd forget the game even occurred or what happened in it at the old site.

A perfect example is playing out in Glendale, AZ which currently hosts the Cardinals (NFL) and Coyotes (NHL) teams. The Cardinals / Coyotes are currently tenants of the Westgate entertainment district (which is like a "mini" Village West). It works great for the Cardinals and horrible for the Coyotes (which have been looking to get out of it for at least the past 11 - 12 years and finally got evicted by the city of Glendale which owns the arena). The issue is that in the NHL having the majority of the fanbase drive during rush hour to games in a remote corner of the metro area doesn't work. It is also why I've found it curious that the Braves abandoned Turner Field for SunTrust park (which is the opposite of what the trend in the MLB had been over the past 30 years or so) although Turner Field wasn't really in downtown Atlanta.

I know there is some sentimental value lost in having the Chiefs move to Kansas but honestly it's 10 - 12 games a year with a once in a blue moon Super Bowl, and potentially a yearly college bowl or concert thrown in. That type of usage shouldn't tie up prime real estate. MLB with at least 81 games a year and a handful of concerts is a somewhat better case of tying up real estate downtown or downtown adjacent.

[kas1]

(and it's location in a corner of the metro area doesn't really negatively impact it to the way that it would if the Royals moved there)

Traffic dispersal is already a problem at TSC in its relatively central location. Having all that traffic fanning out in 180 degrees rather than 360 seems like a significant problem.

I'm sure that people will be willing to put up with whatever bullshit is necessary to attend games as long as the team stays good, but Village West would certainly be a worse experience for most people.

[AlkaliAxel]

(and it's location in a corner of the metro area doesn't really negatively impact it to the way that it would if the Royals moved there)

Traffic dispersal is already a problem at TSC in its relatively central location. Having all that traffic fanning out in 180 degrees rather than 360 seems like a significant problem.

I'm sure that people will be willing to put up with whatever bullshit is necessary to attend games as long as the team stays good, but Village West would certainly be a worse experience for most people.

Then why put the Royals downtown- strain on traffic, right? Why are we suddenly so concerned about traffic and highways…?

[kas1]

???

Downtown is the center of the hub-and-spoke highway system.

And in any case, I've never been more than ambivalent about a downtown stadium so I don't know why the burden would be on me to defend it. Even if it does happen to be very easy to defend in this respect.

[AlkaliAxel]

???

Downtown is the center of the hub-and-spoke highway system.

And in any case, I've never been more than ambivalent about a downtown stadium so I don't know why the burden would be on me to defend it. Even if it does happen to be very easy to defend in this respect.

Idk, everyone has different a specific arguments about this. But the general narrative on KCRag is that traffic & highway needs are not a priority. The biggest complaint about downtown royals from the public has been about traffic being terrible.

[Cratedigger]

(and it's location in a corner of the metro area doesn't really negatively impact it to the way that it would if the Royals moved there)

Traffic dispersal is already a problem at TSC in its relatively central location. Having all that traffic fanning out in 180 degrees rather than 360 seems like a significant problem.

I'm sure that people will be willing to put up with whatever bullshit is necessary to attend games as long as the team stays good, but Village West would certainly be a worse experience for most people.

Do you think that might be a problem because there aren't a lot of exit points at TSC?

Downtown you don't have those few bottlenecks. You'll have highways, arteries, side streets, etc moving traffic in and away from the stadium.

[GRID]

NFL and MLB stadium locations and needs are different and don't necessarily need to be located in the same place.

For the most part a downtown MLB stadium and a suburban NFL stadium seem to be the best for each sport. Tailgating is a big deal in conjunction with an NFL game (as NFL games are more like day long "events") whereas a MLB game is just part of a day / evening. With baseball one can go to work, catch dinner before the game, and have a nightcap at a bar. With NFL it's generally drive to the game, tailgate, watch the game, and go home.

As much as some here hate to admit it, Village West works best for the NFL type of experience (and it's location in a corner of the metro area doesn't really negatively impact it to the way that it would if the Royals moved there). Basically an NFL stadium can be anywhere within the metro area housing the team and be successful (and probably more successful if it's NOT downtown) whereas MLB (and NBA/NHL) have more limited choices as to where arenas can go. I'm a Detroit Lions fan. Lions fans could tailgate at our old stadium site the Silverdome and attendance never really suffered even when the team was horrible because it was an all day event (at one time the Silverdome had the highest capacity in the NFL). The Lions have moved to downtown Detroit in a stadium that really hasn't done much for revitalizing the city and the overall gameday experience outside of the stadium is subpar as one has to park in a crowded lot blocks away from the stadium (with no space to tailgate) and walk / take a shuttle to the stadium. Therefore, nowadays when the team doesn't play well attendance suffers as it's too much of a pain to watch subpar football whereas before you could get drunk and have burgers outside with friends and 1/2 the time you'd forget the game even occurred or what happened in it at the old site.

A perfect example is playing out in Glendale, AZ which currently hosts the Cardinals (NFL) and Coyotes (NHL) teams. The Cardinals / Coyotes are currently tenants of the Westgate entertainment district (which is like a "mini" Village West). It works great for the Cardinals and horrible for the Coyotes (which have been looking to get out of it for at least the past 11 - 12 years and finally got evicted by the city of Glendale which owns the arena). The issue is that in the NHL having the majority of the fanbase drive during rush hour to games in a remote corner of the metro area doesn't work. It is also why I've found it curious that the Braves abandoned Turner Field for SunTrust park (which is the opposite of what the trend in the MLB had been over the past 30 years or so) although Turner Field wasn't really in downtown Atlanta.

I know there is some sentimental value lost in having the Chiefs move to Kansas but honestly it's 10 - 12 games a year with a once in a blue moon Super Bowl, and potentially a yearly college bowl or concert thrown in. That type of usage shouldn't tie up prime real estate. MLB with at least 81 games a year and a handful of concerts is a somewhat better case of tying up real estate downtown or downtown adjacent.

I think everybody on this forum gets this. But why leave the TSC that is only 8 miles from Downtown and 6 miles from the plaza for a spot in west KCK that is 20 miles from downtown and 25 miles from the plaza. You are not just moving the stadium, you are totally removing it from its ability to interact with the city. You will never have transit that goes there, people are much are likely to stay in KCK and JoCo hotels vs downtown and plaza hotels. It's just not good for KC. All so the stadium is closer to a bunch of suburban chain shit that people will still have to drive to even if they go to a game. Makes no sense, but KC does what KC does.

[KCPowercat]

The west bottoms or Fairfax area really intrigues me. So does like a Harlem (want a reason to keep Buck bridge, here it is). I know it's a pipe dream and the Chiefs wouldn't "control" their parking situation as you most likely can't carve out enough land for that much surface parking but it seems to fit a lot of NFL stadiums. Not in the built urban core but reachable from it and still some space for tailgaters. What percent of the Chiefs crowd today wants to tailgate? Like I'm sure 70% does because it's the only entertainment but given an option of a close bar (think Nashville) how many would prefer that?

[GRID]

Would have to tear down some stuff, but this spot would be pretty cool. Would have awesome skyline views.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.1190 ... m2!4m1!3e0

[kas1]

(and it's location in a corner of the metro area doesn't really negatively impact it to the way that it would if the Royals moved there)

Traffic dispersal is already a problem at TSC in its relatively central location. Having all that traffic fanning out in 180 degrees rather than 360 seems like a significant problem.

I'm sure that people will be willing to put up with whatever bullshit is necessary to attend games as long as the team stays good, but Village West would certainly be a worse experience for most people.

Do you think that might be a problem because there aren't a lot of exit points at TSC?

Downtown you don't have those few bottlenecks. You'll have highways, arteries, side streets, etc moving traffic in and away from the stadium.

I think you misread the conversation. This was about Village West, not downtown. TSC has a problem with choke points getting in and out of the parking lot, and I'm assuming any suburban complex would have similar problems wherever it's located. Downtown will do much better with traffic notwithstanding that it will sometimes overlap with rush hour traffic.

[KCPowercat]

Would have to tear down some stuff, but this spot would be pretty cool. Would have awesome skyline views.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.1190 ... m2!4m1!3e0

50 yard line state line is possible!

[moderne]

How much KC earnings tax do just the Chiefs players generate?