Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

[earthling]

Highwoods did a much better job taking care of the Plaza (a notable general improvement/investment was converting sidewalks to brick) but they were too driven to turn it into an office district and reduce residential rather than add (and they barely acknowledged the surrounding neighborhood). Taubman hasn't brought anything to bump up Plaza to another level, just milking what it has while not taking care of it.

They apparently feel they don't have to because the crowds will come anyway - aka, milking.

As long as the crowds spend money.

That pretty much reinforces the milking. The Plaza deserves better than a generic mall owner that hasn't invested much into it. New Nordstroms a pretty good score if it follows through but overall project a lost opportunity, could've added some unique residential on top with perhaps an additional Spanish/Moorish tower on corner.

[empires228]

re has been pretty vocal on social media about how poorly Simon/Taubman/Macerich is running the center.

I befriended a regional manager for one of the largest clothing stores down on the plaza on Instagram the other day, and they said their location has went from being one of the most productive in the country back during the recession to being low volume and he blames the company opening up a branch in Overland Park during the stores peak year on the decline. They’ve thought about shuttering three locations in the metro including the plaza, but they’re locked into some longterm leases. I’ll give a hint in that it’s not Old Navy.

[FangKC]

I feel like that everywhere in the city though. It is a shame we can't have one place in the city that is well maintained.

This

This is one of the reasons for the decline of the Downtown Loop. There was no organized maintenance like the yellow bees, and no downtown business association that levied fees for upkeep and general beautification efforts: landscaping, flowers, tree replacement, trash removal, sidewalk cleaning, streetlamp light replacements, etc. There was also a lack of peer pressure by downtown property owners on neglectful property owners who allowed their properties to become blighted. A lot can be said for simply having the owners of neighboring buildings sending letters and calling you constantly complaining about your property, or making comments to local reporters who do stories on you.

[TheLastGentleman]

It is a shame we can't have one place in the city that is well maintained.

P&L doesn’t count?

[AlkaliAxel]

I went to eat dinner on the Plaza last night and STILL can't believe how nasty the stairwells are for the older parking garages - crumbling concrete stairs, rusted railings, God knows what dripped on the walls and the floors. And simple coat of paint would go a long way.

True. It’ll be nice those when Main St extension is done and those garages won’t ever be a thing for a lot of people anymore.

[DaveKCMO]

It is a shame we can't have one place in the city that is well maintained.

P&L doesn’t count?

No, it very much does not -- both the city and Cordish maintenance is mediocre. A few notable ones:

- The parking lots behind and west of the Mainstreet.
- Years of uneven brick sidewalks (compare them to the Plaza pavers and there's no mistaking it)
- The PNC Plaza (something always seems broken there, and, of course, they stopped staffing it years ago)
- Cosentino's garage stairwell is disgusting (haven't checked the main P&L garage since I have no use for it)

Both P&L and Plaza have dedicated sources of revenue for garage maintenance (1200 Main TDD and CC Plaza TDD), so not sure why they can't keep up with basic cleaning and maintenance.

EDIT: Added details to my original reply.

[TheLastGentleman]

It is a shame we can't have one place in the city that is well maintained.

P&L doesn’t count?

No, it very much does not.

What’s not maintained about it?

[GRID]

Retailers choosing JoCo has always been a major problem for the plaza, at least since the 90's. Half the people that shop at places east of Metcalf like REI, Von Maur, Crate and Barrell and even more run of the mill places like H&M out there in OP and Leawood are from the MO side of the metro.

The Plaza should have most of those as well as a theater, maybe even a Dave and Busters etc, but everything is in JoCo. JoCo has literally twice the retail even for their upscale demographics because they pull from the entire metro.

The Plaza is central to both Johnson and Jackson County and it was a regional draw from both, but once retail started going to 119th, retailers chose that area and people drove out there and it has snowballed since.

[Highlander]

Retailers choosing JoCo has always been a major problem for the plaza, at least since the 90's. Half the people that shop at places east of Metcalf like REI, Von Maur, Crate and Barrell and even more run of the mill places like H&M out there in OP and Leawood are from the MO side of the metro.

The Plaza should have most of those as well as a theater, maybe even a Dave and Busters etc, but everything is in JoCo. JoCo has literally twice the retail even for their upscale demographics because they pull from the entire metro.

The Plaza is central to both Johnson and Jackson County and it was a regional draw from both, but once retail started going to 119th, retailers chose that area and people drove out there and it has snowballed since.

The Plaza pulls in a lot of people from the northern wealthy suburbs in Johnson County like Mission Hills, Prairie Village and Fairway. But not so much from south Johnson County. But south Johnson County is by far the bigger demographic compared to the Plaza draw. When I returned to KC after 35 years this year, south Johnson County had so much more housing selection than KC around the Plaza (like Brookside) which is where I wanted to go. That is a pretty finite and low density area - not really that much housing stock. The Plaza area is so landlocked and is at a natural disadvantage in terms of supporting higher end retail. I still prefer the Plaza (I loathe 135th street) but I suspect my neighbors are quite happy with what's in the immediate area - although many readily support KC cultural institutions like the PAC and Nelson.

I've said this before many times on this board but KC needs a greater density of higher end condo's and apartment and homes in the Plaza area and gentrification on a fairly large scale in the Plaza/midtown area to continue to support the Plaza (at least the Plaza of the last 25 years). South Johnson County has all the natural advantages of development on undeveloped land and a lot of room to grow and their ability to attract retailers becomes a positive feedback loop. Some of that gentrification and density growth is happening as the area between Westport and the Plaza as the multiple cranes there show but that's only a small area too. KC has so far to go compared to cities like Houston and Denver that have extensive areas of upper class and upper middle class urban housing.

[GRID]

^ I agree with what you said, but that was not my point. My point is that JoCo pulls in shoppers from across the entire metro area. People in affluent parts of the metro on the MO side have few options but to go to JoCo to shop for most exclusive retailers. And you can tell this by looking at the license plates in any parking lots in Overland Park or Leawood. With the migration to South JoCo, higher end retail in metro KC is now really lopsided all in southern JoCo. I mean if you live in the Northland or Lee's Summit or Blue Springs or Downtown etc, you have to drive clear to south JoCo now.

There is no reason that the Plaza could not still be a destination, but JoCo is so over retailed with subsidized shopping centers and with KC's highway system, it's still easy to get to from anywhere in the metro.

Still, the Plaza should at least have retailers that cater to affluent urbanites like REI.

[Highlander]

^ I agree with what you said, but that was not my point. My point is that JoCo pulls in shoppers from across the entire metro area. People in affluent parts of the metro on the MO side have few options but to go to JoCo to shop for most exclusive retailers. And you can tell this by looking at the license plates in any parking lots in Overland Park or Leawood. With the migration to South JoCo, higher end retail in metro KC is now really lopsided all in southern JoCo. I mean if you live in the Northland or Lee's Summit or Blue Springs or Downtown etc, you have to drive clear to south JoCo now.

There is no reason that the Plaza could not still be a destination, but JoCo is so over retailed with subsidized shopping centers and with KC's highway system, it's still easy to get to from anywhere in the metro.

Still, the Plaza should at least have retailers that cater to affluent urbanites like REI.

I think that is partly because KC is a relatively small metro. Retailers like REI and Crate and Barrel that might have two stores in some other metros, have one in KC and the logical choice due to demographics has become south Johnson County. For a while, it seemed like exclusive to the Plaza shops were opening a south Johnson County store, then decided one store would be more efficient and ultimately abandoned their Plaza store.

[justin8216]

Country Club Plaza adds LensCrafters and so on…..

[LCDSI]

Did anyone read the article in the star today about the plaza they had a whole section on it but unfortunately I don't have an account so was unable to read it.

[AlkaliAxel]

Did anyone read the article in the star today about the plaza they had a whole section on it but unfortunately I don't have an account so was unable to read it.

Just the same old tale you head the from the local media. “Everyone’s leaving the Plaza” even though the foot traffic is as good as ever

[chaglang]

Pretty evenhanded, but nothing unfamiliar to people who read this thread: lots of vacancies, rents are high, Nordstroms is a big question mark, lack of major anchor tenants, there may never be a theatre there again, new tenants aren't traditional Plaza types of places (minigolf, etc.). It was a little concerning that the optimistic part of the article involved Zocalo, Jack Stack, Granfaloon, Better Cheddar, and Diebels. All good places, but maybe a little underwhelming.

The article could have been easily rewritten around the national changes in retail and how the Plaza is changing. Or it could have been rewritten as the owner not having a clear strategy for the district.

[normalthings]

Nordstroms officially over

[AlkaliAxel]

Ughhhhhh

From KC Star: Nordstrom staying at Oak Park Mall, not moving to Plaza, customers told by employees

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 05190.html

[AlkaliAxel]

I don’t know if this is public knowledge yet, but it appears the Nordstrom deal has has fallen through. Supposedly, Simon is in talks with Target. (I’m not joking)

Anybody else hearing that?

Credit to this account for breaking it first in December

[Chris Stritzel]

Nordstroms officially over

Now would be the perfect time to make that site home to a residential component.

[empires228]

Target needs a downtown store and a plaza store desperately to provide just basic anything for people renting in the area. I hope this means that Nordstrom has plans on renovating the long-neglected Oak Park store and that the higher end brands they’ve been pulling out will make a return.