Oak Park Mall
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Re: Oak Park Mall
But it is looking for locations.
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Re: Oak Park Mall
Oak park mall is going to have a really tough time once Nordstrom also moves out. Not sure what they’re going to do going forward.
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Re: Oak Park Mall
Target move Into Mall because Columbia,MO's one is.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
Where did you here that.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
The downfall continues... The Disney Store will be closing "on or before March 23rd". This is part of their plan to close ~20% of their stores.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
They're also closing at malls far more successful like the St. Louis Galleria, Chandler Fashion Center, and Flatirons Crossing.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
I understand that. But it doesn't discount the fact that it's another major (area-exclusive) retailer that's pulling out.empires228 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:28 pmThey're also closing at malls far more successful like the St. Louis Galleria, Chandler Fashion Center, and Flatirons Crossing.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
I sincerely doubt that Oak Park will go under. The era of many malls has come and gone, but the metro area absolutely has a market for at least one mall for the foreseeable future. I’d bet money on the fact that oak park will be around for a significant amount of timejbean3535 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:12 amI understand that. But it doesn't discount the fact that it's another major (area-exclusive) retailer that's pulling out.empires228 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:28 pmThey're also closing at malls far more successful like the St. Louis Galleria, Chandler Fashion Center, and Flatirons Crossing.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
Why a mall though? Why not Prairiefire? The Plaza? BluHawk?
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
Also Legends? Ward Parkway Shops? Mentum? Lees Summit Fair?
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
FWIW a recent East Coast arrival into KC who hits all the "desirable" retail signifiers (high income, young, professional, starting a family) was SHOCKED when I took her to Halls recently. She had been told by the other young MDs that she HAD to drive to Oak Park Mall for all shopping, in particular Nordstroms. She lives near 63d and State Line, she works at KU Med, and she had grumbled to me how far it was to do her shopping.
Didn't know much about the Plaza (possibly because of COVID)
Didn't know about Crown Center
She had figured out that the "Brookside" Whole Foods was far closer than the outlet in The Fountains in OP, but she seemed generally unaware of the Brookside-Plaza-Downtown axis that many natives utilize almost exclusively.
The KC "school situation" is confusing at best (understandable)
We also visited the Nelson-Atkins, which she had heard about but had not seen.
The city needs to do a better job of advertising its offerings to the constant flux of high-income arrivals. It was I that steered her to Mission Hills as a homeowner, otherwise she might have landed in south Leawood. KC has a viable and pleasant, even luxurious, high-end experience to offer, but it is almost esoteric, only known to a small group.
Didn't know much about the Plaza (possibly because of COVID)
Didn't know about Crown Center
She had figured out that the "Brookside" Whole Foods was far closer than the outlet in The Fountains in OP, but she seemed generally unaware of the Brookside-Plaza-Downtown axis that many natives utilize almost exclusively.
The KC "school situation" is confusing at best (understandable)
We also visited the Nelson-Atkins, which she had heard about but had not seen.
The city needs to do a better job of advertising its offerings to the constant flux of high-income arrivals. It was I that steered her to Mission Hills as a homeowner, otherwise she might have landed in south Leawood. KC has a viable and pleasant, even luxurious, high-end experience to offer, but it is almost esoteric, only known to a small group.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
Town Center has been the land of the new exclusive stores for a decade now. A friend who works leasing for the Plaza told be all about how the sweet deal they had to give Tiffany's to get them from pulling out, and they're super worried about a few others heading to 119th if Nordstrom doesn't get their behind in gear on that new store. There is also somewhat of a worry about what they're going to do with the Victoria's Secret, Barnes & Noble, and Banana Republic Spaces since those companies are all on their death beds. VS and B&N would be huge blows to Oak Park and Zona Rosa as well.jbean3535 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:12 amI understand that. But it doesn't discount the fact that it's another major (area-exclusive) retailer that's pulling out.empires228 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:28 pmThey're also closing at malls far more successful like the St. Louis Galleria, Chandler Fashion Center, and Flatirons Crossing.
At the moment, the only "exclusive" stores left at Oak Park are Abercrombie, Oakley, Eddie Bauer, Fossil, Lush, and Lego. Build-a-Bear has two other locations, Hollister has Legends now, there's four other H&M stores, four other XXI, 4 other American Eagle, 3 other Altar'd State, two other Dillard's, one other Coach (Independence closed last year), three other Barnes & Noble (Independence closed last month), and one other Dry Goods. All of the other stores that a mall of this size would have in STL or Denver are at Town Center Plaza including Pottery Barn, Apple, RH, The Container Store, and then you have the ones that left Oak Park for TCP like GAP, Banana Republic, J.Crew. Talbots, and Jos. A Banks.
Oak Park just does not have access to the demographics that a Cherry Creek, Park Meadows, St. Louis Galleria, Town Center Plaza. The Fashion Mall at Keystone, etc. have access too. If you go on a weekend it's mostly middle class families, mostly middle class minority families, and the malls tenant roster has changed a bit to reflect that. Disney always had a line since they reopened last summer and was rarely dead like the malls Chico's and Johnston & Murphy stores are. This, like Microsoft and American Girl, is more of a reflection on the parent company not succeeding in retail than Oak Park Mall. Panera also largely permanently closed their small number of 20-year-old mall based locations over the pandemic, and closed some standalones around KC as well. The Limited also shut down with a nationwide liquidation, NY&CO shutdown in their first big wave, The Foundry did when JCP pulled the plug on that chain, Teavana closed when Starbucks shut that entire chain down, including the Plaza, Justice, Crazy 8, and Payless (he old pre mega store one is still empty), and Sprint no longer exist, Crocs has essentially shut down their retail division, and The Body Shop and Ann Taylor both left the metro all together.
This leaves Starbucks as the only big shocking recent closure. Prior to that Talbots, Jos. A Banks, and Nordstrom leaving all speak more about the mall than most anything that has closed over the past 5 years. Even then, Talbots has largely struggled alongside Coldwater Creek, J. Crew, Ann Taylor, and Banana Republic and has had to massively downsize. Nordstrom also closed locations in AZ, CO, RI, and VA that all opened alongside Oak Park, conveniently at the end of their incentives. They didn't try to stay in Providence or Norfolk, so it's evident that they were making some money at their existing store and were likely just salty about CBL's bad financial management on a corporate level (their stock had been really low for a while before the bankruptcy) and that their incentives and cheap rent were expiring. They left Norfolk and they were getting paid to stay at MacArthur Center, which at its peak was more on a STL Galleria level of nice. St. Louis is also expected to drop to one store within the next decade as well as their two locations, which largely serve the same area of suburbia have began to erode the others sales, just as the two in Indianapolis stores had been before Circle Center closed.
Abercrombie leaving in the near future wouldn't be a huge surprise either as they've already closed three stores in Denver and have completely exited St. Louis, Omaha, and Wichita. They also recently shuttered a large number of their Atlanta stores. I'll be scared when Lego closes, because until that point Oak Park still has more to offer than Zona, which has no exclusive stores or restaurants at this point in its life (as I recall Hollister, Disney, and Abercrombie all closed there within two years of Zona opening), and IC only has Carhartt, a work clothing brand whose clothes are also available at most outdoor stores and farm stores. The Plaza obviously isn't going anywhere, but its prominence as a retail center has been fading since the early 90s when many of the upscale metro-excusive stores added after the flood began to close. It's still a tourist hotspot and a dining mecca for the city, and I can see more restaurants, nightlife options, and neighborhood-oriented retail options popping up once the street car stop is built. The mostly vacant former Sears/theater would make for a great urban Target store. As of the CCP and OPM in general, my NE JOCO coworkers tend to avoid both. Most are lifelong residents of the metro, several having grown up along Stateline on both sides, and they're done with the crowds and hearing about crime. They drive down to 119th for anything they cant get at Ward Parkway, Corinth, or in the Village Shops. Most only go down to the Plaza once a year on Christmas and then for special occasions and haven't been to Oak Park in over a decade. They've also never been to Corbin Park and didn't know 135th even had a Scheels or Von Maur. I would be surprised if many people in the metro outside of south OP ever make it to Von Maur with how out of the way it is. That store is never busy like the Wichita one is.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
Looks like some things have not changed in KC. If you come to KC and generally only work around or interact with other people from JoCo, you will be trapped in a JoCo bubble. KU Med would be an example of that. It's very bizarre, but it's always been that way. JoCo people to this day still think that county is something special and that KC is Johnson County. JoCo is by far one of the most overrated places in the country, but luckily the only people that know it even exists are those that live there. You can't even watch at tourism or travel vlogger video about KC on youtube without JoCo people commenting about much better JoCo is and that JoCo is why KC exists. Cracks me up.herrfrank wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:50 am FWIW a recent East Coast arrival into KC who hits all the "desirable" retail signifiers (high income, young, professional, starting a family) was SHOCKED when I took her to Halls recently. She had been told by the other young MDs that she HAD to drive to Oak Park Mall for all shopping, in particular Nordstroms. She lives near 63d and State Line, she works at KU Med, and she had grumbled to me how far it was to do her shopping.
Didn't know much about the Plaza (possibly because of COVID)
Didn't know about Crown Center
She had figured out that the "Brookside" Whole Foods was far closer than the outlet in The Fountains in OP, but she seemed generally unaware of the Brookside-Plaza-Downtown axis that many natives utilize almost exclusively.
The KC "school situation" is confusing at best (understandable)
We also visited the Nelson-Atkins, which she had heard about but had not seen.
The city needs to do a better job of advertising its offerings to the constant flux of high-income arrivals. It was I that steered her to Mission Hills as a homeowner, otherwise she might have landed in south Leawood. KC has a viable and pleasant, even luxurious, high-end experience to offer, but it is almost esoteric, only known to a small group.
Actually all of KC sucks outside of the River Market to Brookside corridor. It's either bland boring conservative midwestern suburbia or run down blightened suburbia. JoCo is no exception. Looks just like suburban indy or columbus or omaha or every other metro in the midwest. KC has some okay suburbs in KS and MO. That's it. Nothing special. The only interesting part of KC is the River Crown Plaza though.
At least the snobbish burbs around here have something to be snobby about compared to freaking overland park or olathe haha.
That felt good. Have not ripped on JoCo in a long time!
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
I mean you get "sort of" the same vibe from NoVA toward the MD suburbs, but not quite. And NoVA seems to have a little more pride and knowledge about DC proper than JoCo does about KCMO proper. Oddly, geographically, it's very similar though where the nice VA suburbs are right next to the best parts of DC while the nice MD suburbs are much further away and on the on the other side of the less desirable parts of DC (ie Montgomery county). Just like JoCo is to KCMO vs the Jackson County and Northland suburbs.
Segregation pushed Black flight and the poor generally migrated to east DC and MD while the more affluent went to VA just like it did in KC.
I'm sure that was confusing. But it's very interesting how KC and DC segregation and migration are very similar between MD/VA and MO/KS.
Anyway. My point is that if you are going to be a snob and think you are better than the rest of your metro, NoVa at least does offer quite a bit. Transit oriented areas like Rosslyn or Pentagon City, incredible reactional infrastructure or even much more upscale traditional suburban areas like Tysons etc which make Overland Park look like Sedalia culturally. Or places like Alexandria etc. Maryland has suburbs like Bethesda who can be snobby too, but again, at least have something to be snobby about. Walkable, transit, recreation, urban, close to so much stuff etc. All the suburbs have access to multiple major airports, trains to other major cities, beaches and mountains not too far away. JoCo has access to KCMO.
I have just never understood why people think JoCo is so amazing. Strip malls, office parks and surface parking lots and lots of grass and the Indian creek bike trail. Big deal. And way over priced for a suburb in freaking Kansas.
The best thing about JoCo by far is that it's next to KCMO. That just can't be disputed. But so many there think it's the other way around.
I live in Annapolis which is kind of its own thing. It doesn't know if it's a suburb of DC or Baltimore or neither, but it has one of the neatest downtowns you will ever see. Still don't see too many JoCo types although PG County gets more hate than it deserves from everybody.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
Just giving you a hard time.
While the people you’re talking about definitely exist still in JoCo, I’ve noticed there’s a lot less of it than there used to be when visiting family & friends there. Still way too much, but not like it was in the 90s or early 00s. Especially east of 35 & north of 435, those areas have started to feel more excited by being connected to the urban core instead of being resentful of it, at least post-streetcar.
While the people you’re talking about definitely exist still in JoCo, I’ve noticed there’s a lot less of it than there used to be when visiting family & friends there. Still way too much, but not like it was in the 90s or early 00s. Especially east of 35 & north of 435, those areas have started to feel more excited by being connected to the urban core instead of being resentful of it, at least post-streetcar.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
You really have to get out into far western JOCO, Olathe, and far south JOCO to find the snobbishness that people associate with the county. As for the coworkers who are longtime residents who I mentioned above, they rarely go into Missouri anymore because there's nothing to entice them to. They took their now grown kids to the zoo hundreds of times, they've been to the Nelson hundreds of times, their favorite stores and dining options down at the Plaza died off years ago, the newer companies that they like that offer more sustainable food and clothing options are in Leawood, and when they do cross it's because the good Trader Joe's is at Ward Parkway. One was lamenting the loss of Adler's at Metcalf South the other day and it has been gone for over 30 years at this point, another Swanson's and Halls on The Plaza. Even the one who lives in MO close to the core admits that because their location doesn't provide much to entice them to explore the area they're in as everything in their area seems to be oriented towards tourists and people 20+ years younger then them with there being almost no services, shops, or dining options oriented towards everyday residents.horizons82 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:45 pm Just giving you a hard time.
While the people you’re talking about definitely exist still in JoCo, I’ve noticed there’s a lot less of it than there used to be when visiting family & friends there. Still way too much, but not like it was in the 90s or early 00s. Especially east of 35 & north of 435, those areas have started to feel more excited by being connected to the urban core instead of being resentful of it, at least post-streetcar.
As for the comment above that mentions the "school situation" that's still going to be a major divider for years to come. People my age with money are finally starting to have children, and starting to have them much later than their parents did, and they largely don't want to pay for private schools. I have found this especially true for friends of mine who attended private school against their will as a family tradition and hated it, or those who attended a strong public school in KC, grew up being biased against Rockhurst/Aquinas/Pembroke/etc. and don't want to spend money they can otherwise put away for traveling. I had a few friends who initially bought into gentrifying areas in south KCK and east KCMO, but had to sell 2-3 years later because a more expensive house payment further out was cheaper than paying for approximately 14 years of private school Pre-K-12. They pretty much all ended up in the Olathe North, Lee's Summit High, and Shawnee Mission South attendance areas. They looked into NKC Schools, but didn't like the downward trajectory some of the secondary schools have been showing, Piper and Blue Springs were a little further out than they would have liked and too politically red for them, and they couldn't figure out where any of the money goes in Parkville by programs offered and the success of those programs compared to Lee's Summit, Shawnee Mission, Olathe, Blue Valley, and Blue Springs.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update
^
Having high-quality public school options is a major stumbling block for core KCMO, even when the parents are open to private schooling. My newly arrived Doctor friend lives in the SME district, but her kid is going to a private school nonetheless. She looked at Brookside, but because the other parents there send their kids almost to a person to private schools, she was worried about eventual neighborhood viability. Even though she won't use the SMSD, she feels its presence insures her Mission Hills resale value. I suspect the same is true for Leawood and South JOCO.
Having high-quality public school options is a major stumbling block for core KCMO, even when the parents are open to private schooling. My newly arrived Doctor friend lives in the SME district, but her kid is going to a private school nonetheless. She looked at Brookside, but because the other parents there send their kids almost to a person to private schools, she was worried about eventual neighborhood viability. Even though she won't use the SMSD, she feels its presence insures her Mission Hills resale value. I suspect the same is true for Leawood and South JOCO.