East-West Transit Options Built into Streetcar Spine

[miz.jordan17]

Has there been any consideration of BRT for major east-west corridors connecting into the north-south streetcar transit spine? It's exciting that we are having success with MAX lines (Prospect MAX just for example), and I think if we can market these assets in the same manner as our streetcar, we can increase transit ridership, build access to jobs, and decrease our dependency on individual automobiles. If we can build a sense of respect and dignity around taking the bus that it traditionally has lacked, I think we could make Kansas City a model for the country. Once the transportation innovation center opens for Mizzou and UMKC, maybe the city could leverage them for research.

[earthling]

Crosstown stretches that could use MAX upgrades running every 10-15 minutes...

- Independence Ave
- 18th/Vine to SW Blvd
- 31st line
- 39th line
- 75th line

Pursuing KCPD foot patrol to use buses might draw transit timid people to use bus.

[shinatoo]

What about running The Main and Troost Max busses in a circular route that either crosses over at Volker or 75th street? You could do the same with Troost and Prospect.

[alejandro46]

Just to add, when the original NextRail Study was done prior to building the main spine, several E/W alternatives were considered. I think it's probably one of Sly James' biggest let downs that he was unable to get a streetcar to the east side.


Currently, additional Max lines would need Federal Funding. Current priority is Zero Fare.

[flyingember]

Start at Indep Ave at Hardesty, turn south on The Paseo, then 11th/12th to the new transit center. Cross downtown into the bottoms and come up the Central Ave Viaduct to 7th St in KCK and turn around at Minnesota at the transit center

It connects into two industrial districts, Paseo West and West Bottoms that are both good for jobs access and have space for new development. It brings fast service into neighborhoods of KCK instead of just following I-70

It follows three streetcar proposed routes and it would overlap two priority fast transit corridors from 2014 and end at another
https://www.marc.org/Transportation/Com ... -Plan.aspx
(file page 43)

Build out a single premium stop in the bottoms and focus on biking for the last mile with how flat the area is. The rest of the system mimic Prospect Max for spacing

With Prospect and Troost max also in the mix could have a bus every 4-5 minutes to get across downtown. Add in free bus service and that's faster than the streetcar. It makes transit to get around downtown doable.

[normalthings]

What about running The Main and Troost Max busses in a circular route that either crosses over at Volker or 75th street? You could do the same with Troost and Prospect.

Main Street Max is on its way out.

[flyingember]

What about running The Main and Troost Max busses in a circular route that either crosses over at Volker or 75th street? You could do the same with Troost and Prospect.

Main Street Max is on its way out.

Why would it be? It only would overlap the streetcar for 23 blocks. 50 blocks it wouldn't.

[normalthings]

What about running The Main and Troost Max busses in a circular route that either crosses over at Volker or 75th street? You could do the same with Troost and Prospect.

Main Street Max is on its way out.

Why would it be? It only would overlap the streetcar for 23 blocks. 50 blocks it wouldn't.

I could be wrong but my understanding is that it is going away once the Main Street extension opens. A new streetcar connector brt of sorts would operate from the plaza/terminus area to points south.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... oute.html

[earthling]

Would like to see Main MAX stay as a true express bus. Streetcar can act as local service and have just a few MAX stops along streetcar line. If not along streetcar line then along Broadway.

Another option from circulator mentioned could be Waldo to North Oak MAX overlapping with streetcar through Midtown.

[normalthings]

Would like to see Main MAX stay as a true express bus. Streetcar can act as local service and have just a few MAX stops along streetcar line. If not along streetcar line then along Broadway.

Another option from circulator mentioned could be Waldo to North Oak MAX overlapping with streetcar through Midtown.

I think Dave tweeted that closing Main Max will save KCATA $4million per year.

[earthling]

If it replaces North Oak and Waldo lines, might have a good balance of effectiveness and optimization.

[DaveKCMO]

Has there been any consideration of BRT for major east-west corridors connecting into the north-south streetcar transit spine? It's exciting that we are having success with MAX lines (Prospect MAX just for example), and I think if we can market these assets in the same manner as our streetcar, we can increase transit ridership, build access to jobs, and decrease our dependency on individual automobiles. If we can build a sense of respect and dignity around taking the bus that it traditionally has lacked, I think we could make Kansas City a model for the country. Once the transportation innovation center opens for Mizzou and UMKC, maybe the city could leverage them for research.

Independence MAX is already being studied, and will move into its next phase this year. https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiativ ... ce_ave_brt

Linwood MAX study should start later this year and will build on the Linwood Complete Streets and KCMO Bike Plan work that is in progress. Expect a direct connection to Main Street streetcar and the Sports Complex. https://dashboards.mysidewalk.com/linwood-psp/

They're not east/west, but North Oak MAX is in the study phase and NKC will make some BRT-like investments along Burlington soon. Big kicker here is get the new O'Neill Bridge built so we can get Burlington out of MoDOT control. https://www.kcata.org/transit-initiatives/north_oak

Metcalf MAX is being discussed, and would connect east/west from Plaza to Metcalf. It would build on the BRT plans in Vision Metcalf. https://www.opkansas.org/city-services/ ... n-metcalf/

All of these corridors are identified in the recently-updated Smart Moves regional transit plan, including State Avenue in KCK (which has seen no planning activity since at least 2010): http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/

KC Chamber is focused on developing funding strategies to improve access to jobs, and it's likely these projects would be funded by a new bi-state tax.

RideKC Next will boost frequency on existing east/west routes this year, creating a frequent grid in the urban core. Main Street streetcar will replace MAX from downtown to 51st. South of 51st will be traditional bus service -- like Main MAX is today -- and KCATA will save about $4 million that can be used elsewhere in the system (probably to boost frequency on more east/west routes).

In short, all of the planning is happening we just need the local funding to make it happen. Have you contacted your local elected officials to tell them you want to expand transit in KC?

[earthling]

Great to hear all of this being pursued, generally good targets. Together would provide major improvements... IF the funding can be pulled off.

[DaveKCMO]

Would like to see Main MAX stay as a true express bus. Streetcar can act as local service and have just a few MAX stops along streetcar line. If not along streetcar line then along Broadway.

Another option from circulator mentioned could be Waldo to North Oak MAX overlapping with streetcar through Midtown.

We do not have the resources for overlapping services: https://ridekc.org/planning/ridekc-next

[Riverite]

What would need to happen in order for a streetcar line to be built down independence avenue. It seems like one road that runs easy to west with space to density, but still has a healthy population on its own.

[Riverite]

I know the amount says 209 mil for 3.5 miles, but would a 1 percent sales tax be anywhere close enough to generate half that?

[normalthings]

I know the amount says 209 mil for 3.5 miles, but would a 1 percent sales tax be anywhere close enough to generate half that?

From my research it looks like interest + debt costs is what sinks the ship. If you can raise money ahead of time then you might be able to pay for a lot more routes. Iirc, the Main Street extension would generate more tax revenues over 30 years then the entire capital cost to build the extension.

[DaveKCMO]

I know the amount says 209 mil for 3.5 miles, but would a 1 percent sales tax be anywhere close enough to generate half that?

Perhaps, but will the entire city vote yes on it? History says no. I'm not even sure I would at this point, given that we really need a limited capital plan that addresses job access with more basic service.

That leaves you with TDD, and Independence won't stand on its own (nor would Linwood, which is why they had to be coupled with Main -- which is now peeled off on its own).

Sorry! IMO we're done with rail after River-to-UMKC (the only route that ever scored well with the feds) until there are serious land use changes or an infusion from the states.

[Riverite]

What about increasing density first, to make a TDD possible. Is it possible for the city to decrease parking requirements since transit will be free, and make it easier for developers to build denser

[normalthings]

What about increasing density first, to make a TDD possible.

It could be possible one day, towards or after the ends of our lifes. Its going to take a long time before they are dense enough unless something big changes (like an Amazon or Google or Apple HQs here). Neighborhoods like Brookside-Waldo seem supportive and could maybe pay for it on their own if they raised funds then built it.

Is it possible for the city to decrease parking requirements since transit will be free, and make it easier for developers to build denser

Yes, but as we see with downtown developments, banks still require parking to get a loan. The solution is to either get banks to change their minds or to get more equity investments.

Linwood/31st lies in an Opportunity Zone which could bring in higher % of equity financing. Hot markets also get more equity investments.

Could a urban core TDD or city wide vote for rail transit pass?

Yes. Every week I hear more and more suburban folks try, love, and want more of the streetcar. Since the last city wide rail vote, almost everything has changed - downtown is alive again, the streetcar opened and is successful, MAX lines to the east side have been constructed, and suburbs are building dense cores (ex. Overland Park). We have actual dense clusters to connect downtown with now! Everything has changed since the last vote imho.

However, it’s going to take a devoted/passionate group of people to lead the charge and money. We don’t really have that now - not a bad thing per say, just a different goal as Dave said. Buses only has some benefits on expanding coverage and service but I think bus only isn’t the right solution neither is train only.

STL has waisted a lot of money on building a cadillac rail system (many miles, long underground segments, long elevetaed stretches, etc) that could have been used on extending bus coverage and service. Many miles of their service follow highways and farm fields while close to none traverses areas near STL-MO’s transit low income/dependent populations. In the past few years they approved funding for a North-South Lightrail (funding turned on and bank account filling) through areas where a BRT would be more then enough service. Service isn’t great, TOD has never reallly happened (some more recently), and the system is deteriorating now.