KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[KCPowercat]

So yes 4 cars am weekdays?

[DaveKCMO]

So yes 4 cars am weekdays?

No, only midday (11-2), Saturdays, and special events (First Friday, Big 12, etc.).

[KCPowercat]

I'll tell them I tried my best. One internet post

[DaveKCMO]

I'll tell them I tried my best. One internet post

Things may change after the Main Street extension opens, which will introduce new commuting demands.

[beautyfromashes]

All that said, let's remove the cars from Main Street!

Are you talking removing the parking or auto traffic altogether? I’d be open to either, including on the Plaza extension. Just curious what you meant.

[DaveKCMO]

All that said, let's remove the cars from Main Street!

Are you talking removing the parking or auto traffic altogether? I’d be open to either, including on the Plaza extension. Just curious what you meant.

Start with parking, then remove all traffic (start with Truman to 12th, then go from there).

[KCPowercat]

Truman to 12th. Yes. No cars.

[beautyfromashes]

Truman to 12th. Yes. No cars.

Replaced by grass like in Europe or pedestrian walking plaza?

[DaveKCMO]

Truman to 12th. Yes. No cars.

Replaced by grass like in Europe or pedestrian walking plaza?

You want that expense for mowing or service?

[KCPowercat]

I'll tell them I tried my best. One internet post

Things may change after the Main Street extension opens, which will introduce new commuting demands.

Well at that point 4 car service will be way too little

[earthling]

The 5th streetcar has been placed into service. Plan is to run 4 cars regularly now for weekday lunch (10-2), as well as continue for weekends/major events allowing for 7-10 minute wait times. Would be nice if they'd sometimes use 5 cars at once for the largest events that drive heavy usage. The 6th streetcar arriving later this summer.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ction.html

[DaveKCMO]

The 5th streetcar has been placed into service. Plan is to run 4 cars regularly now for weekday lunch (10-2), as well as continue for weekends/major events allowing for 7-10 minute wait times. Would be nice if they'd sometimes use 5 cars at once for the largest events that drive heavy usage. The 6th streetcar arriving later this summer.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ction.html

Five car service is not authorized. As I've said before, that would require significant changes to the right of way (stronger signal priority, removal of on-street parking, fewer right turns onto the alignment, restrictions on parking garage entries).

The good news is that it doesn't require a lot of infrastructure.

[flyingember]

Induced demand will mean four car service will be as full as three car has been. Going to need to start work on those steps sooner than later

[earthling]

The 5th streetcar has been placed into service. Plan is to run 4 cars regularly now for weekday lunch (10-2), as well as continue for weekends/major events allowing for 7-10 minute wait times. Would be nice if they'd sometimes use 5 cars at once for the largest events that drive heavy usage. The 6th streetcar arriving later this summer.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ction.html

Five car service is not authorized. As I've said before, that would require significant changes to the right of way (stronger signal priority, removal of on-street parking, fewer right turns onto the alignment, restrictions on parking garage entries).

The good news is that it doesn't require a lot of infrastructure.

Don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking a challenge but am curious why that is. If there is a major event downtown, like a convention with 50K+ people or multiple events adding 50K+ downtown, running 5 cars would help, even if two were bunched up near each other as it's ultimately more capacity. Why would 5 impact the items you mentioned but 4 wouldn't?

[DaveKCMO]

The 5th streetcar has been placed into service. Plan is to run 4 cars regularly now for weekday lunch (10-2), as well as continue for weekends/major events allowing for 7-10 minute wait times. Would be nice if they'd sometimes use 5 cars at once for the largest events that drive heavy usage. The 6th streetcar arriving later this summer.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ction.html

Five car service is not authorized. As I've said before, that would require significant changes to the right of way (stronger signal priority, removal of on-street parking, fewer right turns onto the alignment, restrictions on parking garage entries).

The good news is that it doesn't require a lot of infrastructure.

Don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking a challenge but am curious why that is. If there is a major event downtown, like a convention with 50K+ people or multiple events adding 50K+ downtown, running 5 cars would help, even if two were bunched up near each other as it's ultimately more capacity. Why would 5 impact the items you mentioned but 4 wouldn't?

1. The route isn't very long, so a fifth car is a big impact (as was a fourth). If you recall, we went a long time between the opening (the first attempt at 4-car service) and when we were comfortable adding it in as the spare ratio allowed. It was only possible to reliably add a fourth once we nailed the schedule and signal priority (a schedule is required for the real-time signs to work properly).

2. Five-car service isn't budgeted or staffed. We staffed up for four-car service and are now paying off cars five and six with current and future TDD proceeds.

3. Bunching isn't efficient because riders take the first vehicle that shows up and leaves the next one less full (or even empty).

4. A major event with significant traffic restrictions would obviously make five-car service possible (but, again, it's not budgeted).

[flyingember]

3. Bunching isn't efficient because riders take the first vehicle that shows up and leaves the next one less full (or even empty).

I've seen people not get on and wait for the next train when it arrives full or just walk. We're talking like five or six times a year to pull them all out for an hour when you might want to have CID staff and the police on hand to help with loads anyways.

If labor is suddenly a problem running double trains and extending platforms should be explored.

[earthling]

Five car service is not authorized. As I've said before, that would require significant changes to the right of way (stronger signal priority, removal of on-street parking, fewer right turns onto the alignment, restrictions on parking garage entries).

The good news is that it doesn't require a lot of infrastructure.

Don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking a challenge but am curious why that is. If there is a major event downtown, like a convention with 50K+ people or multiple events adding 50K+ downtown, running 5 cars would help, even if two were bunched up near each other as it's ultimately more capacity. Why would 5 impact the items you mentioned but 4 wouldn't?

1. The route isn't very long, so a fifth car is a big impact (as was a fourth). If you recall, we went a long time between the opening (the first attempt at 4-car service) and when we were comfortable adding it in as the spare ratio allowed. It was only possible to reliably add a fourth once we nailed the schedule and signal priority (a schedule is required for the real-time signs to work properly).

2. Five-car service isn't budgeted or staffed. We staffed up for four-car service and are now paying off cars five and six with current and future TDD proceeds.

3. Bunching isn't efficient because riders take the first vehicle that shows up and leaves the next one less full (or even empty).

4. A major event with significant traffic restrictions would obviously make five-car service possible (but, again, it's not budgeted).

Thanks for the explanation Dave.

[normalthings]

3. Bunching isn't efficient because riders take the first vehicle that shows up and leaves the next one less full (or even empty).

I've seen people not get on and wait for the next train when it arrives full or just walk. We're talking like five or six times a year to pull them all out for an hour when you might want to have CID staff and the police on hand to help with loads anyways.

If labor is suddenly a problem running double trains and extending platforms should be explored.

5 car trains have almost double the capacity of our 3 car ones. (221 vs. 129)

However, that extra capacity is generally only needed during weekends and events (a fraction of the total operational time)

Sure, you could make the stations longer. But a station long enough for a 5 car train would cost over $1-1.2million.

Finally, I will note that the proposed EC2/Plaza -and UMKC stops are long enough for he biggest Urbos’s (~190’, ~153’). The other stops are to be roughly 77’ long (what we have now) .

[DaveKCMO]

It's a good thing none of you are responsible for TDD finances.

[earthling]

If event(s) brought 50K+ extra people downtown over a weekend, 50K above normal, wouldn't the increase of sales tax base increase the TDD funding enough to support another driver for peak times a few days? Not sure exactly how the TDD funding/financing works.