Streetcar to the riverfront
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Apologies for broken record repeating myself:
City should build large TIF garages near Paseo Bridge...
- Businesses/residents could lease space, reducing need for parking within downtown (perhaps extra secure levels for monthly holders)
- New projects wouldn't need to worry about providing as much if any parking spaces
- Keeps that many cars out of downtown
- Large downtown events could promote parking in these garages and taking streetcar to event
City should build large TIF garages near Paseo Bridge...
- Businesses/residents could lease space, reducing need for parking within downtown (perhaps extra secure levels for monthly holders)
- New projects wouldn't need to worry about providing as much if any parking spaces
- Keeps that many cars out of downtown
- Large downtown events could promote parking in these garages and taking streetcar to event
- DaveKCMO
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
That's in the plan if this extension makes it to the casino.earthling wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:58 am Apologies for broken record repeating myself:
City should build large TIF garages near Paseo Bridge...
- Businesses/residents could lease space, reducing need for parking within downtown (perhaps extra secure levels for monthly holders)
- New projects wouldn't need to worry about providing as much if any parking spaces
- Keeps that many cars out of downtown
- Large downtown events could promote parking in these garages and taking streetcar to event
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
But not on the scale he's talking about.
Most people arrive downtown and leave within the same hour or so.
Let's say we build a 3000 car garage at the riverfront with a goal of shifting tons of people to it. Let's say the average vehicle occupancy is 1.2 people (for events)
With six trains running we can move this garage worth of cars into downtown in four round trips. That's a little under an hour.
So the streetcar system dedicated to this one location maxes out at 3000 cars.
Then we need bus capacity downtown coming off the line to distribute people. Rough guess, this would take about 1/4 of the total bus system idling along the streetcar ready to load up people coming off the trains.
For the scale and cost of this project we could not build any garages, put the money into making the bus free, buy more busses and run lines with more frequent service to drive ridership citywide.
The only way this idea works is if we pair park and ride at the riverfront with removal of parking spots in equal numbers and funding for the transit system to add equal capacity. Just building garages isn't enough.
Most people arrive downtown and leave within the same hour or so.
Let's say we build a 3000 car garage at the riverfront with a goal of shifting tons of people to it. Let's say the average vehicle occupancy is 1.2 people (for events)
With six trains running we can move this garage worth of cars into downtown in four round trips. That's a little under an hour.
So the streetcar system dedicated to this one location maxes out at 3000 cars.
Then we need bus capacity downtown coming off the line to distribute people. Rough guess, this would take about 1/4 of the total bus system idling along the streetcar ready to load up people coming off the trains.
For the scale and cost of this project we could not build any garages, put the money into making the bus free, buy more busses and run lines with more frequent service to drive ridership citywide.
The only way this idea works is if we pair park and ride at the riverfront with removal of parking spots in equal numbers and funding for the transit system to add equal capacity. Just building garages isn't enough.
- normalthings
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Downtown has more parking than it will ever need - much of that is less than a 5/10 minute walk from the streetcar. Yet, much of this close to streetcar parking goes unused.A big part of the problem is that everyone wants to park as close as possible to their final destination. I don’t see how massive garages at the river will change this. Developers will build and Tenants will demand parking at/adjacent to their properties.earthling wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:58 am Apologies for broken record repeating myself:
City should build large TIF garages near Paseo Bridge...
- Businesses/residents could lease space, reducing need for parking within downtown (perhaps extra secure levels for monthly holders)
- New projects wouldn't need to worry about providing as much if any parking spaces
- Keeps that many cars out of downtown
- Large downtown events could promote parking in these garages and taking streetcar to event
IIRC, Dave previously mentioned that the city spends $17million on parking garages a year. For a fraction of that, we could have fare free bus service. $17million per year adds up to $700 million over 40 years. That’s enough to build Linwood and Indepence Ave. streetcars. I’d imagine the price of a 3,000+ car garage could buy an extension to Brookside.
We should be getting out of the business of financing,subsidizing, owning parking garages.
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
^As lots are developed, these garages can offset lost parking. A developer might develop a lot if not having to build their own garage. Thus encourage more development. And it keeps cars out of downtown.
Until we have effective metro transit, parking will be needed downtown. Best to place at the edges.
Until we have effective metro transit, parking will be needed downtown. Best to place at the edges.
- normalthings
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Why not expand transit in the core using those exact same funds? More and free core transit would significantly reduce parking demands as well. Why cater to just suburbanites coming into downtown.earthling wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:56 pm ^As lots are developed, these garages can offset lost parking. A developer might develop a lot if not having to build their own garage. Thus encourage more development. And it keeps cars out of downtown.
Until we have effective metro transit, parking will be needed downtown. Best to place at the edges.
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Can also be used by residents who live and work downtown and don't need car daily.
- beautyfromashes
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Let’s be honest, KCATA and PortKC have a strong working relationship and are trying to help each other in ways that benefit each other. PortKC wants garages for future development and streetcar expansion and “park and ride” are the excuses.
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Even some shared parking is valuable. But it's not going to replace thousands of spots that can be built on.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:43 pm Let’s be honest, KCATA and PortKC have a strong working relationship and are trying to help each other in ways that benefit each other. PortKC wants garages for future development and streetcar expansion and “park and ride” are the excuses.
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Anyone go?KCDowntown wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:57 am In the 6/10 PortKC development meeting, there is a line item for increasing the funding for the Riverfront Extension.
Here is the agenda.
There are no other details there I can find - so I don't know how much or what is being funded by this proposed increase.
KCDowntown
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
They gave info on Twitterlangosta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:50 pmAnyone go?KCDowntown wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:57 am In the 6/10 PortKC development meeting, there is a line item for increasing the funding for the Riverfront Extension.
Here is the agenda.
There are no other details there I can find - so I don't know how much or what is being funded by this proposed increase.
KCDowntown
$65k to fund additional study around historic preservation the state required.
It goes to the Port KC board for approval.
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 37327.html
Any background on if this would be a positive development?
Any background on if this would be a positive development?
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Immediately what I thought about.
- DaveKCMO
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Yes.WoodDraw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:37 am https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 37327.html
Any background on if this would be a positive development?
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Isle of Capri Casino Deal Renews Hope for Streetcar Connection.
https://cityscenekc.com/isle-of-capri-c ... onnection/
Conceptual Rendering of a renovated Isle of Capri.
https://cityscenekc.com/isle-of-capri-c ... onnection/
Conceptual Rendering of a renovated Isle of Capri.
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
That does not look like a boat.
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- Penntower
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Doesn't look tall enough to 'fit over the boat'.
- normalthings
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Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
I say tear it down and build a real hotel/casino combo with a streetcar extension.