Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
flyingember
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:1. You better have a much more robust public transportation system in place than now.
2. And, yes, a parking garage. In reality many more than just one.
You also have to think about access points.
Those spots aren't bad in terms of space for a stadium and it would be possible to add bus service but 90% of traffic will take the same ramps and streets which are some of the worst designed in the city for adding thousands of cars at once.

Going to end up with thousands of cars on The Paseo and 18th all at once. It would take hours for traffic to clear from this spot.

It's why one of the few good spots downtown is near Indep Ave and the Paseo.
It's already on a major bus route that is planned for bus improvement and would make a fine streetcar line
it has respectful traffic flow from all four directions
could partner with the college on garage parking to make it multi use with them
could be at a northland to downtown traffic transit center spot so don't need to build parking just for that too
there's need to expand development east of course
a stadium near neighborhoods in Columbus Park and Pendelton Heights could drive year-round restaurant demand
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by TheLastGentleman »

There are plenty of places surrounding each site that could hold a parking garage. I just didn't include it because I thought of it as a given and didn't think it would be particularly interesting to show.

I still maintain that there just shouldn't be a downtown stadium at all. I only put this together because it seems a lot of people, both on this forum and IRL, seem to be dead set on getting one, (even the city is scheming), so I wanted to figure out where it could do the most actual good as well as the least damage
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by anonkcmo »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Site 2
Potential view from stands
Image
Sight One works for me but Site 2 is a big no.

Site 2 offers no critical mass or development opportunities that connect downtown and the Jazz District.
It is too disparate from everything other than 71.
Outside of it being somewhat close to 71, there are literally 30+ empty sites throughout the city that would offer the same lack of critical mass.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by DaveKCMO »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:1. You better have a much more robust public transportation system in place than now.
2. And, yes, a parking garage. In reality many more than just one.
Put it in the loop and take advantage of existing parking assets. Why saddle the public with another concrete debt monster? Better transit access, too.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by anonkcmo »

East Village? IMO that is the only possible location inside the loop.
East Village is never going to happen.
If it was even 20% viable as a location for mixed use someone would have jumped on it by now.
Put the stadium on the extreme east loop next to 71.
You have I-70, 71 and 670 there.
Perhaps some apartment towers might be built if you put the stadium there.

The north loop will eventually happen and I'd like to see the I-70 trench gone eventually and the streets restored.
A stadium there will eventually keep the highway in place as people will complain they need it for stadium access.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

Put the stadium at a spot like SW corner Indep Ave and Paseo or south of 18th and Vine. Near to downtown but not on top of it. Both spots won't break the long distance grid, all streets involved end near to the point they would be cut and the areas are prime redevelopment spots.

Include in the exact the same voter approval a fully funded streetcar line that reaches the new stadium from Main and use all the parking along the line. You also would have every rider able to hop off on the way back at any restaurant they pass instead of the nothing at the current stadium vs immediatelly driving home.

It's about a mile of track to either site which would add around 10% to the total cost.

I like the 18th and Vine ideas more overall in this model. 18th St track would be a transfer point for Troost Max to the streetcar.
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alejandro46
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by alejandro46 »

Thought maybe I'd start a pro/con list as this discussion continues.

Downtown Stadium
Pros
-New facilities that all fans can enjoy.
-Potential for more profit the Royals (need to keep them in town)
-Closer for downtown residents and potential for higher attendance
-Sweet views
-Potential for spin off development
-Possibility of site re-connecting 18th and Vine/Negro Leagues museum
-Existing stadium getting up there in age (By the time the lease runs out in 2030, Kaufman will be 57 years old, the same age Wrigley Field was in 1971)

Cons/Counterpoints
-Extremely expensive to build new stadium ($450m estimate a decade ago).
-Existing stadiums generally very well liked (to the last point, you don't see the Cubs wanting to tear down Wrig anytime soon right?)
-Good highway connectivity to TSC, downtown less so; but also TSC cut off from rest of city and only access is via personal car, bus, Uber.
- Will likely need additional investments in even more parking.
-Not a great use of real estate (a stadium would only be filled with people 81 times a year for 3-5 hours, leaving a massive empty stadium for 284 dates).
-Generally, downtown & urban core development is strong, save a few obvious exceptions in E. Village, 18th and vine area - not clear that this is really needed or the best way to spur development.
- Negative public opinion regarding public financing of stadiums. Dubious ROI for city.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by DaveKCMO »

alejandro46 wrote: -Not a great use of real estate (a stadium would only be filled with people 81 times a year for 3-5 hours, leaving a massive empty stadium for 284 dates).
-Generally, downtown & urban core development is strong, save a few obvious exceptions in E. Village, 18th and vine area - not clear that this is really needed or the best way to spur development.
- Negative public opinion regarding public financing of stadiums. Dubious ROI for city.
Me, in a nutshell.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by shinatoo »

I disagree on higher attendance. DT only has 20-40k residents, depending on how you draw the line. So you would be putting a stadium in a low-density area with poor automotive access, relatively speaking. And yes, TSC is in a VERY low population area. But isn't all of KC low-density population? So since you can't build it where there are people you have to make it easy to get to. It's easy to get to where it's at.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by earthling »

I was strongly for a downtown stadium 10+ years ago as a way to strengthen downtown but have since realized a strong downtown shouldn't be mostly based on events and downtown already has a healthy variety of venues. While I wouldn't be entirely against a downtown stadium, more hotels/residents/offices would be a better use of space. The TSC location is poor though.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by DaveKCMO »

earthling wrote:While I wouldn't be entirely against a downtown stadium, more hotels/residents/offices would be a better use of space. The TSC location is poor though.
I'm sure you'd be against it when the inevitable ask for public subsidy is revealed.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by earthling »

Likely.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by WoodDraw »

I think the Royals missed their opportunity for a new stadium downtown. And I'm not in love with any of the locations proposed anyway.

I'm not sure you could get to 50% these days even if you only asked the urban core.
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warwickland
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by warwickland »

i've always thought that a new stadium should be in the sort of south/southeast corner of the crossroads where there is an offensive amount of almost nothing but parking lots. it would be within walking distance of vastly underutilized, extant parking/parking garages and some transit, including now the new streetcar...and lots of bars/restaurants.

there would be a wonderful view of the kc skyline + vital connectivity yet not intrude on the higher use potential of the loop...
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by StL_Dan »

This is exactly where I have always envisioned a downtown stadium in KC being built. Not sure why there are high rises directly north of the stadium in your rendering cutting off the view of downtown, but, otherwise it's exactly as I've envisioned it since working near Wash Park back in the late 90's/early 2000's.
normalthings wrote:2005 Royals Washington Park Site Overview
Image

My 2018 Updated Renderings

View from West/Southwest
Image
View from the bottom of the memorial
Image
Union Hill Aerial
Image
Northeast Aerial
Image
Link to all images
https://imgur.com/a/ZQJR3w4

Please let me know what you think of this. Suggestions are welcomed. I could make something like this for the Northloop as well.

The stadium itself is very similar to Wrigley in Chicago. A lack of horizontal space is combatted by moving support areas and such(kitchens, dinning rooms, etc) below grade. The site has a lot of below grade space that can be utilized for such purposes.

I removed the game day plaza to allow for more seating and hotels/apartments/office spaces and associated spaces. Every potential revenue producing space must be capitalized on inorder to make the financing for this project work.

Why this site?:
1. The land is already owned by KCMO and Union Station.
2. No highway removal is required to get this going, unlike the northloop site.
3.The parcels included in my plan are hard to activate, unlike the North loop which would already have been built on by now.
5. I believe a Northloop stadium would turn into a sprawling suburban site in a prime downtown location. The limitations of the Washington Park site make sure the stadium and associated structures do not sprawl.

Worries: Traffic is definitely a concern at this site. Main should be closed to cars on game day to 1. preserve streetcar performance and 2. serve as a sort of pedestrian zone. This plan relies on a streetcar expansion, bussing, and hopefully LR to make the car problem manageable.
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normalthings
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by normalthings »

I included the high rises as a way for the park to get revenues from alternative sources.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

Obviously that site won’t happen because neither the city or Union Station own all the land/buildings but the idea of adding new buildings to go with a stadium isn’t a bad idea. I seem to recall seeing this idea in a concept stadium somewhere
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by StL_Dan »

If that is what it takes to get one done, I’d be all for it.
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by shinatoo »

You know where there is plenty of room for a stadium? Southeast of 14th and Genessee.

Aprox view from mid level behind home plate.

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flyingember
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by flyingember »

shinatoo wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:07 am You know where there is plenty of room for a stadium? Southeast of 14th and Genessee.
This isn't remotely a doable spot.

It's on an airport runway approach and the second the FAA has an interest you can expect them to be against it.
There's only one practical access point back to the rest of the city and EB on 670 drops to one lane and that's also how to get to 35 NB. Getting back home would take hours for some.
It has all the failings of Kemper Arena in terms of what's not around it.
You're unlikely to see any real interest in putting a major new city facility into an area that could flood.
It breaks up the grid dramatically, meaning there's only one road to the south remaining, need to take out Wyoming and Liberty
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