Three Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4348
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Three Light

Postby earthling » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:17 pm

kboish wrote:
earthling wrote:Bizarre that this is even debatable. The City already had an agreement with Cordish and it did not include affordable housing.


Yes it did


For the Light buildings? Midland is still in play and they do need to deliver.

kboish
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2293
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: Three Light

Postby kboish » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:23 pm

earthling wrote:
kboish wrote:
earthling wrote:Bizarre that this is even debatable. The City already had an agreement with Cordish and it did not include affordable housing.


Yes it did


For the Light buildings? Midland is still in play and they do need to deliver.


The original MDA calls for affordable housing (which is why this was brought up by council people in the first place). There is no recourse by the city if Cordish fails to deliver. It is an empty clause, but it doesn't change the fact that it is in there.

I'll reiterate, I'm not saying they should retroactively put affordable housing in 1 and 2... or even in 3 light since it is 11th hour, but discussing it with Cordish for 4 light makes sense and the city is getting something it originally contemplated. The amendments made today address this and make alot of sense. The city should go for it.

mean
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 10705
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:00 am
Location: Historic Northeast

Re: Three Light

Postby mean » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:35 pm

StrangerThings wrote:That’s simply ridiculous. Why are any of us here living in houses with spare bedrooms when there are homeless people? Why are any of us driving huge SUV’s when we have no families while a bunch of people can’t afford a bike?


I don't think you'd like the answer you got from certain moral philosophers, but I bet it'd be something like, "Because you're a bad person and you should feel bad." And, I mean, it's kind of hard to argue the point. When it comes down to it, we tend toward the selfish and greedy, and we manage to not feel bad about it (and live lives of utilitarian austerity and give the bulk of our earnings to those less fortunate) mostly because selfishness and greed is a self-fulfilling feedback loop. And we're really good at convincing ourselves that we deserve it because we worked hard (regardless of how hard we actually worked, and in spite of the fact that someone who had to trudge barefoot through the desert for 30 miles just to find clean water has, by virtually any reasonable measure, worked a lot harder for something you or I can get almost free at any time, than anybody who made $350 in the same amount of time sitting in a cubicle and going to a couple meetings).

Which isn't to say I agree with the moral philosophers in question, but I am entirely cognizant of the fact that this is merely a combination of my own selfishness and greed coupled with the sense that I deserve what I have and a certain lack of empathy for which I feel like I should feel guilt over, but I manage not to, because feeling feelings is not a thing I have been programmed to do THANK YOU FOR READING THIS FELLOW HUMAN

Segmentation fault (core dumped)
root@mean:~/#

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4045
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Three Light

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:40 pm

^ Someones at the bar. Cheers!

mean
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 10705
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:00 am
Location: Historic Northeast

Re: Three Light

Postby mean » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm

Bar? Psh. That would necessitate social interaction. I'm drinking alone at home like a proper alcoholic who is definitely not a robot running Linux.

User avatar
KC_JAYHAWK
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:33 am
Location: Waldo

Re: Three Light

Postby KC_JAYHAWK » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:21 pm

For 3 Light, Cordish should just stack a bunch of shipping containers 300 feet tall. Now all that is going to happen, is Cordish is going to use cheaper materials and finishes for the next towers to ensure their projected return on investment.

WoodDraw
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Three Light

Postby WoodDraw » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:35 pm

KC_JAYHAWK wrote:For 3 Light, Cordish should just stack a bunch of shipping containers 300 feet tall. Now all that is going to happen, is Cordish is going to use cheaper materials and finishes for the next towers to ensure their projected return on investment.


Again, yep.

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8974
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Three Light

Postby Highlander » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:17 am

GRID wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:I honestly can't process that people here think three/four light should be affordable housing.


It kind of blows my mind. There are so many other ways to bring affordable units downtown.

KC is going to scare off potential national developers that are putting up 35 story towers in places like Nashville, Denver and Austin, hell, even St Louis has a couple of 30 story plus towers going up in addition to their Cordish tower. I can't see that new 36 story tower in Central West End having affordable units lol.

The Light towers are the cream of the crop in KC for new construction high end urban apartments. It just doesn't make sense to make them 15% affordable units.

I can see doing some or all of the Midland Tower, but not the Light Towers. Even so, the city made a deal with Cordish and should honor that deal. Jesus, if t wasn't for that deal, there probably still wouldn't be a new residential tower in downtown KC yet. It makes no sense to punish the very company that took a chance on downtown KC, just because they ended up being successful. I kind of thought that was the original goal.


Frankly, I think a lot of this pressure on Cordish is because KC has a councilperson that wants to be mayor and is trying to widen their appeal to a larger swath of the city's voters. It took forever for KC to ever get rents to a point where new high rise construction could be supported. There is now way developers can build luxury towers and then lease them out for market rates. It's not going to be economically viable to do what some on the council want and insistence by the council will just ensure further building doesn't happen. KC has a finite amount of renters and as the limits of the apartment market start to get tested, older and otherwise less appealing apartments in the city will start to offer market rates out of necessity. I suspect demand in KC has been so pent up, it has taken a while for builders to catch up to that demand - but they will if they haven't already. It will sort itself out without any intervention from the city.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16293
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Three Light

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:37 am

Highlander wrote:Frankly, I think a lot of this pressure on Cordish is because KC has a councilperson that wants to be mayor and is trying to widen their appeal to a larger swath of the city's voters.


While that may be partially true, some of us really want to make sure downtown remains economically diverse.

yeliab
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Three Light

Postby yeliab » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:11 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
yeliab wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:

So I’m expected to pay full rent while someone else can live in the same building, same unit and get a steep discount? Explain to me how that’s far? There are several income restricted apartments downtown. I’m all for affordable housing, I’m not ok with low income housing being in a “luxury” apartment building. How in the hell does that make any sense.


How is it fair that Cordish has enough money to build a bunch of buildings that look the same but still gets tax incentives when there are people with no homes at all in Kansas City?



That’s simply ridiculous. Why are any of us here living in houses with spare bedrooms when there are homeless people? Why are any of us driving huge SUV’s when we have no families while a bunch of people can’t afford a bike? So the city isn’t expected to invest in anything until there’s no homeless, no crime and a cash surplus in the bank? Sounds like a great plan.

And because you obviously are spiteful towards Cordish, let me clarify once again. I don’t have a problem with all of my neighbors making half of what I do or having no income. I’m from a tiny town and grew up poor. Was well below the poverty line for most of my life. My complaint is someone living in THE EXACT SAME UNIT AS ME AND PAYING HALF THE PRICE.



Simmer down. I don't hate Cordish (at least, no more than any other business like them). I only asked a ridiculous question because you did. The answer to both is "we live in an unfair system." Welcome to capitalism, where meritocracy is myth!

I simply don't agree with incentives and there little proof that they work or are utilized as intended.

yeliab
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Three Light

Postby yeliab » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:17 pm

StrangerThings wrote:Welcome to capitalism, where you can be born with nothing and be anyone you want to be!



I mean the richest 2100 people made like 86% of the new wealth last year (enough to bring every impoverished person in the world out of poverty and some) but you’re right...Total meritocracy!

Also, (again) it’s really nothing personal with Cordish. Lots of companies and politicians use incentives in ways they were not originally intended to be used and with unfortunate consequences.

yeliab
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Three Light

Postby yeliab » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:45 pm

I don't think the city should have given Cordish money in the first place. You really don't seem to get that I'm opposed to incentives pretty much across the board because their use has been so broad and the benefits rarely trickle down to the most in need (don't worry, though, the most in need won't be "benefiting" from sharing the same elevators as you because there are plenty of restrictions on affordable housing to keep them out). That is why I don't care about Cordish any more than any other company/politician utilizing them. I just don't agree with them.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4045
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Three Light

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:14 pm

Good God! Take it to the Politics section.

cityscape
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Overland Park

Re: Three Light

Postby cityscape » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:50 pm

Incentives, when used properly can help stabilize a community. Had we not invested with Cordish in P&L district, we would have likely seen a continued decline of downtown which means less money coming in and still the same infrastructure to support. I do feel like 100% property tax abatements never should have been given out, however, we do need that flexibility when certain projects are too risky for a developer to take on. With that said, incentives like what just happened for Mediware in OP are just stupid. The only ones who benefit are the developers/business. I feel like KC is starting to turn the tide on needing to use incentives to support development, however, my guess is that we'll continue to allow them for the foreseeable future downtown.

atticus23
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:14 pm
Location: Roanoke/Volker

Re: Three Light

Postby atticus23 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:47 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Good God! Take it to the Politics section.

AGREED!

User avatar
wahoowa
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: CBD

Re: Three Light

Postby wahoowa » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:58 pm

you don't get a cordish employee discount for rent at onelight?

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8974
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Three Light

Postby Highlander » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:33 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
Highlander wrote:Frankly, I think a lot of this pressure on Cordish is because KC has a councilperson that wants to be mayor and is trying to widen their appeal to a larger swath of the city's voters.


While that may be partially true, some of us really want to make sure downtown remains economically diverse.


I think downtown KC can remain economically diverse even if expensive-to-build towers like Cordish's Light Towers do not include market priced units. If the council continues to insist on that, they simply will not be built.

Building always catches up with and surpasses pent up demand, when KC gets to that point, there will be more market priced apartments around than can be occupied. 1, 2 , and 3 Light will most likely stay beyond the reach of more modest incomes because the money pumped into them will continue to make them desirable even if KC gets overbuilt (which is inevitable).

User avatar
normalthings
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 972
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Three Light

Postby normalthings » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:05 am

This is really just an argument of government control vs. private markets.

tower
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:45 am
Location: Midtown

Re: Three Light

Postby tower » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:56 am

^Yes, but there are a lot of people who support greater government control in other aspects that would oppose rent control, myself included.

This argument specifically also has a lot to do on where you feel that downtown is at and what the goal is. If you want the most people possible to live in a dense, urban environment, then you should welcome buildings that no one but the wealthy can afford, because people want to live in wealthy neighborhoods and live like wealthy people. Maybe not everyone gets to live in a Cordish light building, but that will drive people to want to live there, and live in buildings similar to the ones that the wealthy people live in. That will drive dense construction around those areas and the demand for transit. Assuming that we don't grow too fast, we will always have older buildings that are more affordable to live in, but we will end up with a much denser city.

User avatar
grovester
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: KC Metro

Re: Three Light

Postby grovester » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:47 am

But that logic does get extrapolated.

You shouldn't expect to live in One Light leads to You shouldn't expect to live in P&L district, leads to You shouldn't expect to live downtown, etc.

While I agree that the existing towers should be exempt, I don't agree that Cordish be allowed to build affordable housing "anywhere in the city". Should be within x distance from their non-affordable properties.


Return to “Power & Light District”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests