I hope that this graphic is instructive for those unfamiliar with the Clayton CBD. Some may be familiar with the "Clayton Hole," which has been vacant for some time on the eastern end of the CBD. This will be built upon, thankfully. That's parcel 3, above.
other projects currently under contruction:
212 south meremec (currently has a crane on site, up to about the 8th floor now):
vanguard (currently under construction):
plus more smaller projects, and various office/residential highrise proposals awaiting approval in the shadows of the centene development.
i'm guessing that's not going to be a Fresh Market grocery store in the retail space on Meremec, now, since they have been closing stores around the country...
as far as centene, i'm hearing 2.25 million square ft total, not including parking, including a residential component. i'm also hearing that garages may end up wrapped in additional retail.
a ground level rendering on the far east end of the project, near the metro station/washington university.
flyingember wrote:I heard Clayton described as a second downtown for StL a decade ago.
Clayton has been described by a lot of names:
1. "The New Downtown"
2. St. Louis' "Second Downtown"
3. St. Louis' "Uptown"
4. St. Louis County's "Downtown"
Unfortunately, while downtown Clayton has a viable purpose, it poaches firms downtown St. Louis. And although Centene has always been HQd in Clayton with offices throughout metro St. Louis, it would have been nice to have this project downtown instead of Clayton.
Clayton, while full of some of the most beautiful residential real estate in the state, is IMO a major drag on development in downtown STL and a general sense of "center" within the downtown to midtown corridor.
Downtown Clayton is 8 miles from the Arch as the crow flies, a distance that would place you in Waldo from the river in KC. Albeit, STL has a much larger/denser urban core, but because STL spreads so far west Clayton and surrounds feel more like a regional center than downtown, way off on the eastern edge.
Would love to have seen the Centene development/expansion at Ballpark Village as planned several years ago.
It's true that clayton puts a drag on downtown, but it's also true that clayton gets development that would NEVER go downtown, and would only otherwise go to west county within the central corridor. this is not a small amount of development, either. so, it's a mixed bag. i'm hoping that clayton gets "built out," soon. it might get close after centene gets finished, save for a few smaller parking lots here and there. clayton is completely hemmed in by very highly desirable residential streets, so it's not like it can "infinitely" grow like a sprawled municipaility such as chesterfield. it's a generally pre-war streetcar suburb.
the centene proposal has recently been "cleaned up" with more street level uses/retail and additional residential. some open space/plaza-crap has been eliminated and buildings "tightened up."
Apparently, Clayton was facing an initiative petition to try to stop the Centene development. Instead, the council declared it unworkable, threw it out and raised the requirement for petition initiatives.
i can kind of understand the annoyance with the amount of rush hour traffic (which isn't really terrible unless you are on hanley southbound to I-64). it's a strange situation...there's a desire for higher density office environments in st. louis, but the demand is in every central corridor node except for downtown. clayton has mutiple cranes on the skyline, and it's about to get a few more.
i kind of feel like clayton should have had a DC like cap on building heights, if anywhere in st. louis area did. more streetwall, more retail, less office highrise. the neighbors might be a little less worked up. the largest proposals would likely go east. they should have experimented with form based codes, if anyone could afford to. they do have some pro-urban planning documentation which i guess has guided some of this.
downtown clayton has a tiny, hemmed in footprint compared to downtown st. louis. now that the "clayton hole" is being filled in, that really only leaves infill on parking lots, which is happening (or demolition, which is happening), or *some* expansion along north and south rd towards u-city which already has some lowrise stuff, or west along maryland towards I-170, which is seeing new lowrise construction.
at some point clayton is going to be somewhat built out. i don't see neighborhood support for east coast (long island city, etc) level density, honestly, the clayton sfh neighborhoods are going to freak. at that point downtown may see more activity, hopefully.
flyingember wrote:I heard Clayton described as a second downtown for StL a decade ago.
Clayton has been described by a lot of names:
1. "The New Downtown"
2. St. Louis' "Second Downtown"
3. St. Louis' "Uptown"
4. St. Louis County's "Downtown"
Unfortunately, while downtown Clayton has a viable purpose, it poaches firms downtown St. Louis. And although Centene has always been HQd in Clayton with offices throughout metro St. Louis, it would have been nice to have this project downtown instead of Clayton.
i want to think of clayton as uptown, but it has traditionally felt more like st. louis countys downtown, especially when you are driving south on north and south or hanley through a pre-war county neighborhood and it pops up on the horizon (not to mention the county courts, county police hq, etc). it feels like you are actually driving towards the primary downtown of some moderately sized sunbelt city in north carolina, or something. however, younger people think of it more like an uptown, i'd say, of a contiguous corridor.
there was another proposal on hanley further north that was shot down, probably the neighbors torpedoed it. kind of dumb considering that hanley already has a little residential highrise cluster. i'd almost rather see more slender, tall highrise stuff along there than these squat, chunky proposals that have been popping up.
im allergy medded up + beer so that reads really weird.
