2014 Downtown Housing Report
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Union Carbide was supposed to be 100% condos when it opened in 2010
It opened as mostly rental units because they weren't selling. The floor with the best amenities, 4th with the outdoor decks, sold crazy quickly and as combined units (4 into 2).
The penthouse was still bare concrete (walls and ceilings) as of about this January when I was in it. The 2x balcony with their cool stonework has absolutely no view except up at a 45 degree angle killing the interest (I'm 6 foot tall and couldn't see over without needing a chair)
At least they have an ok view.
It shows how a poor setup can kill sales but still have interest from renters.
It opened as mostly rental units because they weren't selling. The floor with the best amenities, 4th with the outdoor decks, sold crazy quickly and as combined units (4 into 2).
The penthouse was still bare concrete (walls and ceilings) as of about this January when I was in it. The 2x balcony with their cool stonework has absolutely no view except up at a 45 degree angle killing the interest (I'm 6 foot tall and couldn't see over without needing a chair)
At least they have an ok view.
It shows how a poor setup can kill sales but still have interest from renters.
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- Strip mall
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Loftguy,
So are you saying that the market for condos priced between $100,000 to $235,000 is holding and the market for condos above that price is not? From what I'm seeing all cash buyers are the ones above $235,000 in which case that is a group is short supply. Some all cash buyers are purchasing 1bd 1bth as investments but even then demand for condos seems fairly muted within the KC market. Be interested to see your info on the condos that are selling at retail+ compared to 2007 and in which buildings bc I'm at a loss on that one. 1PP and WST units are similar in price to the Hemingway, but most are way below Townsend, Alameda, Walnuts, Sulgrave Regency, Churchill, etc. on the plaza. Those sales are usually all cash and inventory has been sitting for some time.
BOM,
Most of the 1PP residents live there for only part of the year. Plus, at that price range people are older or professionals, in either case, they're looking for peace and quiet as well as high security. The pool is small but so are most condo pools in KC, all things considered. They are probably the only place I've seen with an indoor smoking parlor and climate controlled wine cellar. The feeling I got with that place was you live there if you don't want to be bothered.
So are you saying that the market for condos priced between $100,000 to $235,000 is holding and the market for condos above that price is not? From what I'm seeing all cash buyers are the ones above $235,000 in which case that is a group is short supply. Some all cash buyers are purchasing 1bd 1bth as investments but even then demand for condos seems fairly muted within the KC market. Be interested to see your info on the condos that are selling at retail+ compared to 2007 and in which buildings bc I'm at a loss on that one. 1PP and WST units are similar in price to the Hemingway, but most are way below Townsend, Alameda, Walnuts, Sulgrave Regency, Churchill, etc. on the plaza. Those sales are usually all cash and inventory has been sitting for some time.
BOM,
Most of the 1PP residents live there for only part of the year. Plus, at that price range people are older or professionals, in either case, they're looking for peace and quiet as well as high security. The pool is small but so are most condo pools in KC, all things considered. They are probably the only place I've seen with an indoor smoking parlor and climate controlled wine cellar. The feeling I got with that place was you live there if you don't want to be bothered.
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
So, old people from the suburbs who want to sound cool to their friends by living in the city, but don't really want to live in the city? No wonder it's not selling. Kind of sounds like a retirement community.ThorsteinVeblen wrote:They are probably the only place I've seen with an indoor smoking parlor and climate controlled wine cellar. The feeling I got with that place was you live there if you don't want to be bothered.
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
I did not know there were decks. On the back side I guess? That's neat.flyingember wrote:The floor with the best amenities, 4th with the outdoor decks.
I also did not know those walls were so tall. I can see it from my office but it is difficult to judge the height. Good to know. I'll stop coveting those.flyingember wrote: The 2x balcony with their cool stonework has absolutely no view except up at a 45 degree angle killing the interest (I'm 6 foot tall and couldn't see over without needing a chair)
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
North side next to Lane Bldg.smh wrote:I did not know there were decks. On the back side I guess? That's neat.flyingember wrote:The floor with the best amenities, 4th with the outdoor decks.
For those that don't know, the UC building used to have outside windows on the north side on the 2nd and 3rd floor, only the 1st floor went back to the alley. the Lane building was just a blank wall. The renovation enclosed the gap so the roof basically became level with Lane. This became the deck for the 4th floor units.
It's a good example of how you can do a historic renovation and add space at the same time. If it were residential could have done some really nice 3 bedroom units, something that's lacking downtown.
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- Strip mall
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Wasn't really sure where to place this one but see below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... l?page=all
Quote from the article below. Not sure how to find the rendering the author is referring to, maybe someone else knows?
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... l?page=all
Quote from the article below. Not sure how to find the rendering the author is referring to, maybe someone else knows?
Thus, on the same day the new job numbers were announced, it wasn't surprising for Bucky Brooks, a Copaken Brooks principal, to unveil a rendering of the spectacular new office building envisioned for the Grand Boulevard site.
The firm, which acquired the site via a swap for land Copaken White & Blitt owned within the nearby Power & Light entertainment district, "can really be (developed as) anything," Brooks said during the Integra conference.
"But we have it planned now preliminarily for 525,000 square feet of Class A office ... with a unique, innovative design," he said.
The rendering, completed by 360 Architecture, reveals a spiraling design, achieved by rotating each of the 25-story building's square-shaped, 21,000-square-foot floorplates four degrees from the floorplate below it.
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
ThorsteinVeblen wrote:Wasn't really sure where to place this one but see below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... l?page=all
Quote from the article below. Not sure how to find the rendering the author is referring to, maybe someone else knows?
Thus, on the same day the new job numbers were announced, it wasn't surprising for Bucky Brooks, a Copaken Brooks principal, to unveil a rendering of the spectacular new office building envisioned for the Grand Boulevard site.
The firm, which acquired the site via a swap for land Copaken White & Blitt owned within the nearby Power & Light entertainment district, "can really be (developed as) anything," Brooks said during the Integra conference.
"But we have it planned now preliminarily for 525,000 square feet of Class A office ... with a unique, innovative design," he said.
The rendering, completed by 360 Architecture, reveals a spiraling design, achieved by rotating each of the 25-story building's square-shaped, 21,000-square-foot floorplates four degrees from the floorplate below it.
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- Strip mall
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Thanks for posting the rendering.
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Thanks for posting that KCBJ article Thorstein, a very positive take on demand for office space in the core. Strangely bullish on downtown.
Really hoping these projects come to fruition, and obviously the Copaken proposal would be spectacular and a major sign that downtown is "back" - a big step beyond another luxe apartment complex.
Would also love to see some movement in east village by Van Trust, and I'm frankly surprised that Plaza hasn't seen more movement towards new construction hotel and office the last 5-10 years (outside Plaza Vista).
Really hoping these projects come to fruition, and obviously the Copaken proposal would be spectacular and a major sign that downtown is "back" - a big step beyond another luxe apartment complex.
Would also love to see some movement in east village by Van Trust, and I'm frankly surprised that Plaza hasn't seen more movement towards new construction hotel and office the last 5-10 years (outside Plaza Vista).
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
There is a hotel going up just off the plaza on southwest traffic way. I also believe the hotel on main is considering tear down to rebuild in place.
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- Strip mall
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Rxlexi,
Agree the Copaken project would be a big deal simply in terms of design build. We really don't have a unique modern tower like that in our downtown (obviously we have some unique towers, P&L, etc.), another 10 stories to make it 35 would be great, mainly to increase visibility of it as an individual drives around or approaches our downtown from a distance.
Given the residential that is expected to come on line late 2015 and 2016 plus the momentum those developments provides, gives me the impression that both demand for commercial space and construction of new space will follow.
However, as Copaken noted, construction of the building is dependent on securing a tenant and likely a large one but the project could have some legs given that the KCBJ reported on it.
Agree the Copaken project would be a big deal simply in terms of design build. We really don't have a unique modern tower like that in our downtown (obviously we have some unique towers, P&L, etc.), another 10 stories to make it 35 would be great, mainly to increase visibility of it as an individual drives around or approaches our downtown from a distance.
Given the residential that is expected to come on line late 2015 and 2016 plus the momentum those developments provides, gives me the impression that both demand for commercial space and construction of new space will follow.
However, as Copaken noted, construction of the building is dependent on securing a tenant and likely a large one but the project could have some legs given that the KCBJ reported on it.
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
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Last edited by pash on Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Strip mall
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Pash,
Mirror the same feeling on both points. Copaken has a lot of "future development" projects that have sat as pictures on their website for a long time.
Mirror the same feeling on both points. Copaken has a lot of "future development" projects that have sat as pictures on their website for a long time.
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
Agreed.After seeing the rendering, I'm less hopeful Copaken's "plan" is anything more than continued pie-in-the-sky marketing for the lot, which they've been sitting on for going on a decade now. Likewise for their "plan" to build something west of the Kauffman Center.
RE: the rendering, I honestly can't imagine that design being built in KC, even if the demand for the space was there. It is, however, beautiful. I'll remain excited that surely some n/c office space will be announced downtown in the near future, as that is the true barometer of downtown's health, IMO.
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
At first I hated everything about this building. It felt like the little brother of some Zaha knockoff that youd find in one of those overnight city developments in china. But after thinking about it the last couple of days im really starting to warm up to the idea. While this look is nothing new, a building like this would be very unique in this region. Something that every visitor would remember. It would also be a true testament that downtown is alive and thriving. Granted, id love to see it a bit taller/larger, and some serious design development at the street level. Maybe some varying heights along the base or a corner entry on the NW corner to start...
It could be the angle of the rendering and the lack of site context, but IMO the simple stone base doesn't compliment the twisting tower in any way. Almost as if one person designed the base and another the tower without talking, then stuck them together in sketchup, and called it done. I think it seems clear that this design is still pretty early in development.
Also, Copaken tweeted out another view looking NE last night. I cant seem to get the pic to post (attachment quota has been reached???) so maybe someone else can go dig it up and post it on here
It could be the angle of the rendering and the lack of site context, but IMO the simple stone base doesn't compliment the twisting tower in any way. Almost as if one person designed the base and another the tower without talking, then stuck them together in sketchup, and called it done. I think it seems clear that this design is still pretty early in development.
Also, Copaken tweeted out another view looking NE last night. I cant seem to get the pic to post (attachment quota has been reached???) so maybe someone else can go dig it up and post it on here
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
This thread is about downtown housing, not office buildings.. this topic already here (someone needs to move)...
http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18881&start=100
Not really into that design. Of twisting buildings, it's pretty basic and utilitarian compared to others out there.
https://www.google.com/search?q=twistin ... 36&bih=754
http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18881&start=100
Not really into that design. Of twisting buildings, it's pretty basic and utilitarian compared to others out there.
https://www.google.com/search?q=twistin ... 36&bih=754
Re: 2014 Downtown Housing Report
yep.. sorry, thought i was in the other thread on that last post. doing too many things at once