KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[zonk]

Thanks guys! & gals! Just curious! Those images explain a lot.

[flyingember]

https://twitter.com/flyingember/status/ ... 48/photo/1

If anyone was wondering where the crossover at Union Station will be this is from the Link.

[flyingember]

I was downtown yesterday right before the basketball game I didn't know about.

I'm looking forward to the collapse of $25 event parking close to the sprint center. Will help more lots become buildings.

[kcmetro]

I was downtown yesterday right before the basketball game I didn't know about.

I'm looking forward to the collapse of $25 event parking close to the sprint center. Will help more lots become buildings.

What is going to cause the price to collapse?

[WSPanic]

I was downtown yesterday right before the basketball game I didn't know about.

I'm looking forward to the collapse of $25 event parking close to the sprint center. Will help more lots become buildings.

What is going to cause the price to collapse?

Since we're in the streetcar thread, I'm going to guess streetcars.

Don't know if he's right, but I think that's what he's getting at.

[flyingember]

I was downtown yesterday right before the basketball game I didn't know about.

I'm looking forward to the collapse of $25 event parking close to the sprint center. Will help more lots become buildings.

What is going to cause the price to collapse?

Since we're in the streetcar thread, I'm going to guess streetcars.

Don't know if he's right, but I think that's what he's getting at.

The train is going to upend parking downtown.

I actually had a problem on Saturday finding a place to park along the line in the crossroads that wasn't stupid expensive because of the game. People just sit in the on street spots all day and a huge number of lots are private and empty. I actually saw people avoiding the $25 lots a couple blocks away and were instead walking 4-5 blocks.

It's interesting how much money is left on the table because one place overcharges and the next over just blocks use.

Inside the loop is worse and always has been. Only the river market has a large amount of free public parking.

People will start to park further out, walk to a stop and ride to the event.

[loftguy]

Only the river market has a large amount of free public parking.

This too, will soon change.

[aknowledgeableperson]

How many people can the streetcar bring to downtown in say two hours? Maybe for some events that have half capacity the streetcar might make a difference but for many not much affect. Demand for parking near the area, no matter the size of the crowd, will always be high and will command premium parking charges.

Paying for high priced parking is like paying the higher scalper prices for event tickets. There is always someone willing to pay the premium.

[DaveKCMO]

How many people can the streetcar bring to downtown in say two hours?

it's as if the 50 bus routes that serve downtown don't exist.

[flyingember]

How many people can the streetcar bring to downtown in say two hours? Maybe for some events that have half capacity the streetcar might make a difference but for many not much affect. Demand for parking near the area, no matter the size of the crowd, will always be high and will command premium parking charges.

Paying for high priced parking is like paying the higher scalper prices for event tickets. There is always someone willing to pay the premium.

Bring to downtown? Zero. It doesn't leave downtown.

In all seriousness,

with 140 people per vehicle and a train every 10 minutes. You can bring people from two directions double that.
So in an hour, 1680 people per train can move to a single spot.

At regular service, 5040 people per hour.
With all four trains, 6720.

At every 15 minutes that's 3360/4480

[DaveKCMO]

[aknowledgeableperson]

it's as if the 50 bus routes that serve downtown don't exist.

We were on the topic of streetcars. Besides the busses are already in place so the only change from the present would be the streetcars.

Bring to downtown? Zero. It doesn't leave downtown.

My bad. Should have said something like to inside the loop or the Sprint Center, from Crown Center or the Market

with 140 people per vehicle and a train every 10 minutes. You can bring people from two directions double that.
So in an hour, 1680 people per train can move to a single spot.

Of course that is maximum or potential but realistically how many people will actually take the streetcar to a SC event? Of course there will be some who are willing to stay around for two hours after an event to catch the streetcar but many, many more will be in a rush the area right afterwards. And after a few times of waiting they will say forget this and resort back to their cars.

[flyingember]

Of course that is maximum or potential but realistically how many people will actually take the streetcar to a SC event? Of course there will be some who are willing to stay around for two hours after an event to catch the streetcar but many, many more will be in a rush the area right afterwards. And after a few times of waiting they will say forget this and resort back to their cars.

I agree. But you can see just how many people they can move in theory. If just 10% of people for a basketball game park cheaper and ride the train that's 2000 people. That would be a huge success if that happened most Saturdays. The system is planning for only a few hundred daily riders at the busiest stops.

Never underestimate the ability for people to be cheap. These people below would rather move their car around or park seven minutes away (obvious exaggeration) than find a spot that costs close to work
http://www.kctv5.com/story/27638444/new ... -employees

This all used to be open parking," Jessie Bauters said. "Now, you either have to park in one of the three hour spots and constantly move your car, which is a pain when you're trying to work during the day, or park like seven minutes away."

According to the plan, 698 parking spaces will be changed to three-hour spots.
For Turan Yildirok, the change means losing his 10-hour parking spot outside work

It means I'm going to have to find parking that's going to cost me an extra $600 a year

A regular 31 day bus pass costs $600 per year. We know bus service is subsidized so that tells us that parking rate is quite reasonable.

[kcjak]

One thing that needs to change is the enforcement of parking regulations. Writing countless tickets for repeat offenders and then not collecting or offering amnesty is a joke. Cars need to be booted or towed - and then use the increase in fees for a dedicated parking control job downtown.

As for the guy complaining about $600 a year for parking downtown - I wonder how many people complain about that but not about increase in gas prices when they have to drive 30 miles round trip a day to get to other jobs.

[kboish]

$50/month for parking is pretty reasonable.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Never underestimate the ability for people to be cheap

Oh I know. For awhile I parked outside the loop on the east side when I worked at the hall. Later I parked on the third floor instead of the lower two of an old, old garage to save some bucks.

However, that was for work. For many social is different, especially when they are with others. Premium event parking will always be around just like people willing to pay a higher price for choice event tickets.

[flyingember]

Cars need to be booted or towed

I forget who it was, but there was a comment from someone from downtown on Twitter asking for experiences with boots. I mentioned there was a TV show which covered them quite well from Philadelphia. (parking wars?)

And enforcement absolutely needs to be stepped up. I was at the city market last Saturday. I saw five cars in a single block that could have been ticketed. Several would have been high value tickets from parking in front of a fire hydrant, in a no parking zone and over a crosswalk.

[bobbyhawks]

As for the guy complaining about $600 a year for parking downtown - I wonder how many people complain about that but not about increase in gas prices when they have to drive 30 miles round trip a day to get to other jobs.

Perhaps I am way off base, but I'd assume there is a lot less maintenance involved in providing places to park along the street (than in general road/highway maintenance and updates). The spaces already exist (mostly), and they don't exactly wear down. A parked car doesn't emit greenhouse gases into the air. You are essentially charging people a fee for having a car and living/working in a certain area. Its like an added property tax for downtown workers and residents. Depending on the demand to go dowtown, there is a certain critical mass where you cross over from discouraging people from coming downtown at all to incentivizing carpooling and public transportation taking.

As for a gas tax, it is directly attributable to consumption of gasoline, a variable rate of emissions (depending on the vehicle's efficiency), and, in part, to wear and tear on the roads. The lower the gas tax (given appropriately low gas prices), the more likely people are to wear down the roads and burn fuel at a faster rate. I understand a regressive tax argument for gas taxes, but I also think it is only regressive in that the United States has decided not to make public transit a priority (other than in the form of lip service).

[pash]

.

[DaveKCMO]

You are essentially charging people a fee for having a car and living/working in a certain area. Its like an added property tax for downtown workers and residents.

It's a price you pay to consume a scarce resource with many alternative uses. And the price you're being asked to pay is doesn't cover its cost.

...and the space doesn't belong to them. it's public right-of-way.

the government is not required to provide you multiple, convenient, and free places to store your personal property.