The state sales tax is not ideal. It prohibits user fees, such as a higher gasoline tax and tolls for the next decade. That is unfortunate and shortsighted. Missouri has one of the lowest fuel taxes in the nation, and it ought to be increased.
Does the prohibition on user fees includes things like Mission's driveway tax or a per mile vehicle charge type tax?
It seems like a pure ban on raising gasoline taxes isn't too big of a deal considering we would need come up with alternative methods of taxation to fund any sort of infrastructure development in the future regardless. Gasoline taxes are going to have diminishing returns no matter how high you make it IMO.
The state sales tax is not ideal. It prohibits user fees, such as a higher gasoline tax and tolls for the next decade. That is unfortunate and shortsighted. Missouri has one of the lowest fuel taxes in the nation, and it ought to be increased.
Does the prohibition on user fees includes things like Mission's driveway tax or a per mile vehicle charge type tax?
It seems like a pure ban on raising gasoline taxes isn't too big of a deal considering we would need come up with alternative methods of taxation to fund any sort of infrastructure development in the future regardless. Gasoline taxes are going to have diminishing returns no matter how high you make it IMO.
property and payroll taxes will go back up once people start voting against sales taxes
chaglang wrote:At the rate that transportation preferences and attitudes are changing, 10 years is a very long time. If cities are going to continue to press MODOT to fund things like capping the loop, streetcar, passenger rail, and trails, roads are going to need to start taking baby steps toward self-sufficiency. The gas tax and tolls are two ways of doing that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Amendment 7 would make it more difficult to do non-MODOT projects because sales tax would already be going to MODOT. It takes up a prime funding source of local projects.
this.
st. louis is now emboldened by KC's insistence for a more balanced approach.
we forget how shocking KC's 30% transit mandate is to the status quo. we landed at 27% when the dust settled. that in itself is amazing.
renewal will require another project list. imagine how pro-transit the city will by then? with an 8-mile streetcar network, a lot more bike facilities, and a vastly rejuvenated urban core?
TheBigChuckbowski wrote:It seems like people might be supporting this because of the change in the funding of the streetcar. But, if the streetcar vote doesn't pass, we're stuck with this crappy law and no streetcar. I haven't seen anyone point that out.
I think everyone is feeling out the issue....it's not time to vote yet. Yes the streetcar funding helps because now statewide tax collection isn't only for roads as it's been for decades in the past...not to mention, talk of getting rid of the north loop w/ the Broadway bridge replacement is pretty sexy too.
I wasn't aware the TDD was required to pass for the streetcar expansion to happen given this new funding from the state....I was aware the federal funding had to come through....maybe Dave can clarify.
1) pass the TDD
2) apply for federal funds
3) build
4) success!
nothing happens without the TDD passing first. the state thing would help keep the project going in the event the TDD doesn't pass the first time, but the TDD is still needed.
1) pass the TDD
2) apply for federal funds
3) build
4) success!
nothing happens without the TDD passing first. the state thing would help keep the project going in the event the TDD doesn't pass the first time, but the TDD is still needed.
So let's play worst case scenario.....statewide passes....it promises streetcar....TDD fails....then what? We try again on TDD and state money is just sitting and waiting for us or does it get repurposed?
rumor mill indicates the state legislature could actually raise the gas tax without a vote of the people. modot continues to insist they can't toll, but they have a valid waiver from the feds saying they can toll existing I-70 lanes and there currently isn't a state prohibition on it (which is why Amendment 7 would prohibit it).
DaveKCMO wrote:rumor mill indicates the state legislature could actually raise the gas tax without a vote of the people. modot continues to insist they can't toll, but they have a valid waiver from the feds saying they can toll existing I-70 lanes and there currently isn't a state prohibition on it (which is why Amendment 7 would prohibit it).
If the rumor holds true then I will swing from a reluctant yes vote to a hard no vote.
DaveKCMO wrote:rumor mill indicates the state legislature could actually raise the gas tax without a vote of the people. modot continues to insist they can't toll, but they have a valid waiver from the feds saying they can toll existing I-70 lanes and there currently isn't a state prohibition on it (which is why Amendment 7 would prohibit it).
If the rumor holds true then I will swing from a reluctant yes vote to a hard no vote.
I agree- I've never been so back and forth! and a (fairly) anonymous message board is what is doing it.
No one else provide any arguments for or against, I won't be able to remember what I decided come election day!
I am on the fence with this one as well and was wondering if the project list negotiated w/ MODOT is set in stone or legally binding. Is there a chance it is a bait and switch? Are they legally held to keep w/ the 27% for transit and the projects promised? I'm worried the tax will pass and MODOT will be all, "MOAR ROADZ!" and put the other stuff on the back burner indefinitely.
Also, where can I find more information about MODOT "evaluating the northern loop of I-70" as Mayor Sly mentions in his support of the amendment?
1. We need it.
2. It's more than just automotive projects (not as much as I like but a start)
3. I prefer a toll road funding for the interstates but that is never going to happen.
4. I don't like the sales tax, but food and medical is excluded, so I can capitulate.
5. MY biggest gripe about politics are peoples inability to compromise. For reasons 3 and 4 to resolve I have to compromise and it good enough.
The reality is any heavy toll on trucks is going to drive up the price of food, so this might be a MORE progressive way to fund rebuilding our interstates.
shinatoo wrote:
The reality is any heavy toll on trucks is going to drive up the price of food, so this might be a MORE progressive way to fund rebuilding our interstates.
If the cost of transportation is not currently reflected in the price of food, why shouldn't it increase? Seems more fair than this sales tax on a tv set subsidizing an artificially cheap banana.
shinatoo wrote:I voted yes for the following reasons.
1. We need it.
2. It's more than just automotive projects (not as much as I like but a start)
3. I prefer a toll road funding for the interstates but that is never going to happen.
4. I don't like the sales tax, but food and medical is excluded, so I can capitulate.
5. MY biggest gripe about politics are peoples inability to compromise. For reasons 3 and 4 to resolve I have to compromise and it good enough.
The reality is any heavy toll on trucks is going to drive up the price of food, so this might be a MORE progressive way to fund rebuilding our interstates.
Do you mind my asking why you believe tolling will never happen? I do not have background on the history as to why it's the third rail of MO Politics.
I do also agree that "Perfect is the Enemy of the Good". However, I just can't get my mind around on why tolling 70 is a non-starter in MO as well as raising the gas tax.
shinatoo wrote:I voted yes for the following reasons.
1. We need it.
2. It's more than just automotive projects (not as much as I like but a start)
3. I prefer a toll road funding for the interstates but that is never going to happen.
4. I don't like the sales tax, but food and medical is excluded, so I can capitulate.
5. MY biggest gripe about politics are peoples inability to compromise. For reasons 3 and 4 to resolve I have to compromise and it good enough.
The reality is any heavy toll on trucks is going to drive up the price of food, so this might be a MORE progressive way to fund rebuilding our interstates.
Do you mind my asking why you believe tolling will never happen? I do not have background on the history as to why it's the third rail of MO Politics.
I do also agree that "Perfect is the Enemy of the Good". However, I just can't get my mind around on why tolling 70 is a non-starter in MO as well as raising the gas tax.
Seam like we have been trying to get it done for 30 years. Plus my unqualified opinion is tolling is in decline around the country. Gas tax is dwindling as cars use less fuel. Both gas and toll taxing are regressive, putting more % burden on the lowest earners. Any toll or tax on truckers is just going to get passed along in the price of goods. By excluding food and medicine you take the sales tax burden off the lowest earners. Sales tax is not my ideal for a taxing mechanism but it seams to be the best we will get on a state level.
shinatoo wrote:I voted yes for the following reasons.
1. We need it.
2. It's more than just automotive projects (not as much as I like but a start)
3. I prefer a toll road funding for the interstates but that is never going to happen.
4. I don't like the sales tax, but food and medical is excluded, so I can capitulate.
5. MY biggest gripe about politics are peoples inability to compromise. For reasons 3 and 4 to resolve I have to compromise and it good enough.
The reality is any heavy toll on trucks is going to drive up the price of food, so this might be a MORE progressive way to fund rebuilding our interstates.
Do you mind my asking why you believe tolling will never happen? I do not have background on the history as to why it's the third rail of MO Politics.
I do also agree that "Perfect is the Enemy of the Good". However, I just can't get my mind around on why tolling 70 is a non-starter in MO as well as raising the gas tax.
Seam like we have been trying to get it done for 30 years. Plus my unqualified opinion is tolling is in decline around the country. Gas tax is dwindling as cars use less fuel. Both gas and toll taxing are regressive, putting more % burden on the lowest earners. Any toll or tax on truckers is just going to get passed along in the price of goods. By excluding food and medicine you take the sales tax burden off the lowest earners. Sales tax is not my ideal for a taxing mechanism but it seams to be the best we will get on a state level.
