TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! THE BIG 12 IS DEAD! MAYBE!

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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by beautyfromashes »

^^^
And that's the point. People from the Midwest could care less. It's why I've stayed in this city instead of moving anywhere else... truly good, down to Earth, unpretentious, roots are in rural America, talk is cheap people. They don't want to be anyone else and don't care what is said about them. The silly game of pitting people against each other; whether it's religion/nonreligious, Republican vs. Democrat, coast vs. interior, conference vs. conference is pointless.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by bobbyhawks »

KC-wildcat wrote:Academically, I imagine the BigXII is viewed as 4th. B10, Pac12, ACC, BXII, SEC.
The endowment numbers are interesting to look at, but with some statewide systems, some more overlapping endowments, etc., the apples to apples comparisons of conference edownment numbers are difficult to make. If you take A&M and UT out of the picture for their respective conferences, the $1.37 billion per school Big XII advantage slims down to $12 million per school. Also, some of the numbers may exclude system-wide endowment figures, but from a quick glance at wiki entires, the rankings are as follows:

1. Big 12 @ $2.89B ($1.48B if you cut UT down to Austin only)
2. Big 10 @ $2.79B (with Rutgers and Maryland)
3. Pac 12 @ $2.77B (again, did not try to separate out system-wide vs. local for most)
4. ACC @ $2.36B (without Maryland and with Louisville - would be $1.89B without the crutch of non-football Notre Dame)
5. SEC @ $1.52B

It looks like 6 years ago, a random forum poster elsewhere did the math and came up with the following:

1. Pac 10 @ $3.39B
2. Big 10 @ $2.67B
3. Big 12 @ $2.56B
4. ACC @ $1.58B
5. SEC @ $1.02B
6. Big East @ $892M
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by AllThingsKC »

KC-wildcat wrote:Academically, I imagine the BigXII is viewed as 4th. B10, Pac12, ACC, BXII, SEC.
Based on what?
KC-wildcat wrote: Athletically, BXII is right in the middle.
Based on what?
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by KC-wildcat »

AllThingsKC wrote:
KC-wildcat wrote:Academically, I imagine the BigXII is viewed as 4th. B10, Pac12, ACC, BXII, SEC.
Based on what?
KC-wildcat wrote: Athletically, BXII is right in the middle.
Based on what?
Perception
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by AllThingsKC »

KC-wildcat wrote:Perception
That's fine, but what is your perception based on? It certainly isn't based on winning bowl/tournament records, national championships, or number of NFL Draft picks.




Texas fans are worried about the future of the Big 12, based on their perception.
...but national interest will still be marginal, the other conferences will argue (rightfully) that a 1 or 2 loss conference winner in their league is stronger than a Big 12 champion and the playoffs system will seed accordingly. If seeding us at all.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

AllThingsKC wrote:number of NFL Draft picks.
Why should anyone care about the number of NFL Draft picks a conference produces?
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by KC-wildcat »

AllThingsKC wrote:
KC-wildcat wrote:Perception
That's fine, but what is your perception based on? It certainly isn't based on winning bowl/tournament records, national championships, or number of NFL Draft picks.
[/quote]

Well, like I said, the national perception is that the SEC and the ACC are the best and worst football conferences, respectively. And that the BigXII, Pac12, B1G are somewhere in the middle, fluctuating from year to year. If you go based purely off of draft picks (which is an interesting measure), the BigXII has benn in that 2nd - 4th range over the course of the past 15 years - including the BigEast.

Football - SEC is king. Basketball and Academics - SEC is the pauper. It is what it is.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by WSPanic »

AllThingsKC wrote:
KC-wildcat wrote:Perception
That's fine, but what is your perception based on? It certainly isn't based on winning bowl/tournament records, national championships, or number of NFL Draft picks.




Texas fans are worried about the future of the Big 12, based on their perception.
...but national interest will still be marginal, the other conferences will argue (rightfully) that a 1 or 2 loss conference winner in their league is stronger than a Big 12 champion and the playoffs system will seed accordingly. If seeding us at all.
Texas - a school with zero draft picks - is concerned about the perception of the rest of the conference? More great nuggets from AllThingsMU....
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by AllThingsKC »

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
AllThingsKC wrote:number of NFL Draft picks.
Why should anyone care about the number of NFL Draft picks a conference produces?
At playoff time, conferences are going to use every argument possible to the committee to "show" the strength of their conference. Fan might care about it as a way to argue strength of schedule.

WSPanic wrote:
AllThingsKC wrote:
KC-wildcat wrote:Perception
That's fine, but what is your perception based on? It certainly isn't based on winning bowl/tournament records, national championships, or number of NFL Draft picks.




Texas fans are worried about the future of the Big 12, based on their perception.
...but national interest will still be marginal, the other conferences will argue (rightfully) that a 1 or 2 loss conference winner in their league is stronger than a Big 12 champion and the playoffs system will seed accordingly. If seeding us at all.
Texas - a school with zero draft picks - is concerned about the perception of the rest of the conference? More great nuggets from AllThingsMU....

Don't shoot the messenger.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

AllThingsKC wrote:
TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
AllThingsKC wrote:number of NFL Draft picks.
Why should anyone care about the number of NFL Draft picks a conference produces?
At playoff time, conferences are going to use every argument possible to the committee to "show" the strength of their conference. Fan might care about it as a way to argue strength of schedule.
If the number of NFL Draft picks in previous seasons is a factor in determining the playoff teams in college football, I will stop watching.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by AllThingsKC »

With 5 power conferences and only 4 playoff spots, I'd suspect you will hear all kinds of stupid arguments from the conference about why their champion is more deserving for a spot than the Champions from other conferences. Another likely argument would be "well we had a championship game. That makes our schedule tougher." And there will likely be other stupid arguements.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by bobbyhawks »

AllThingsKC wrote:With 5 power conferences and only 4 playoff spots, I'd suspect you will hear all kinds of stupid arguments from the conference about why their champion is more deserving for a spot than the Champions from other conferences. Another likely argument would be "well we had a championship game. That makes our schedule tougher." And there will likely be other stupid arguements.
We can't get to 6 or 8 teams soon enough.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by beautyfromashes »

AllThingsKC wrote: And there will likely be other stupid arguments.
I'm sure all of them have been thoroughly discussed in this thread already.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by AllThingsKC »

bobbyhawks wrote:We can't get to 6 or 8 teams soon enough.
Exactly. But even then, I wouldn't be surprised to see teams left out for less-deserving teams. While the the major conferences are represented on the playoff committee, I have no idea what criteria the committee will use in determining who gets a spot. For now, we will have at least 1, and maybe 2, conferences left out of the 4-team playoff. This is where national perception (accurate or not) is important.

The conferences will no doubt be arguing their case for 9-game vs. 8-game schedules, championship game vs. no championship game, SOS, which teams can sell out the stadiums the fastest, etc.

I don't know how the playoff committee will keep from being corrupt or bias.
beautyfromashes wrote:I'm sure all of them have been thoroughly discussed in this thread already.
This thread has no shortage of opinions, that's for sure. Of course, that's just my opinion. :P
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

AllThingsKC wrote:With 5 power conferences and only 4 playoff spots, I'd suspect you will hear all kinds of stupid arguments from the conference about why their champion is more deserving for a spot than the Champions from other conferences. Another likely argument would be "well we had a championship game. That makes our schedule tougher." And there will likely be other stupid arguements.
Well, good, I'm glad that we can agree that many of your arguments are stupid.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by AllThingsKC »

Those aren't my arguments.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by bobbyhawks »

AllThingsKC wrote:I don't know how the playoff committee will keep from being corrupt or bias.
I think the point is that the opportunity for bias shifts to less impactful decisions as more teams are added. Changing the conversation from which two teams deserve the only shot at a national championship to which four teams deserve a chance to play-in to the championship is a giant leap, and I think people tend to forget that when they think about the increased opportunity for punditry.

On one extreme, you have college basketball. Nobody feels that bad for the last four out of the tournament, save the last four out and Dick Vitale because his close personal friend works for one of the programs. This is why it is important for college football to add as many teams as possible (within reason). I'm in favor of 12 or 16. You can even give first round byes to the best teams that win their conference championships. With this many teams, there is almost no way an undefeated team is ever left out of the playoff run. When figuring out the correct number, you can ask if the following rankings could ever possibly win a playoff: #3, #5, #7, #9, #13, #17? I find it difficult to believe that #16 or #17 would ever win, but I still think it is best to leave room for the long shot (and don't think it is crazy that #9 could win). Until you include all of the teams with a legit shot of winning, it is a farce of a playoff. I like 12 team configurations better with a bye for #1-#4 and home games in the first two rounds.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

To go to more than 4 teams something has to give. League championship games or one week in the season. Schools can already play 14 games. How many more do you want them to play to win-it-all?
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by KC-wildcat »

PS, did you guys see the new SEC football scheduling for non-division opponents?

http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/NEWS/t ... unced.aspx

I mean wow, Mizzou. SEC!SEC! amiright? I guess I didn't realize these tradition-rich battles with your brethren LSU, Bama, Auburn, etc. would only be played about once every 6-8 years.

2014 at Texas A&M
2015 vs. Mississippi State
2016 at LSU
2017 vs. Auburn
2018 at Alabama
2019 vs. Ole Miss
2020 at Mississippi State
2021 vs. Texas A&M
2022 at Auburn
2023 vs. LSU
2024 at Ole Miss
2025 vs. Alabama.

Permanent opponents in 2014: Home – Georgia, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Arkansas; Away – Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee. Sites alternate home and away through 2025.
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Re: TIME TO FREAK OUT AGAIN ABOUT CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT! TH

Post by bobbyhawks »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:To go to more than 4 teams something has to give. League championship games or one week in the season. Schools can already play 14 games. How many more do you want them to play to win-it-all?
With the current 4 team playoff, teams can actually play 15. The most you could possibly play in a 16 team playoff format would be 17. The max is 20 in the NFL, and the rosters are way bigger in college. For a 16 team field, I would recommend that the NCAA take away a regular season game (max games = 16) since most teams have 2 to 4 fluff games anyway that don't really do much for the rankings. The NCAA needs more opportunities for the quality teams in a league to play one another (or at least have the same opportunity in a national tournament). As it stands, the best team in the SEC can tie by record with another team in the conference, be left out of the conference championship game and the national playoffs, and never have a shot to prove much nationally because of wonky scheduling.

Still, my best scenario for the near term would be to have 12 teams. The top 4 teams to win a conference championship game would get a first round bye. As of now, it is pretty straightforward (Big 10, SEC, Pac 12, and ACC). Doing nothing else, that is a max of 16 games (NFL regular season, though if another conference championship game winner made the national championship game, it could be 17). If you take away a fluff game, then you end up with a max of 15 games, which is actually the current max. So the truth is that you can get to 12 teams if you care about making the playoffs quality. Unfortunately, it is ruined by the fact that the non-playoff-likely teams will not give up KU vs. App St. and the revenue associated.
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