NHL OR NBA, let the message board decide!!

[KCMax]

There are markets our size and smaller that have NHL and NBA teams in their arenas, and yet still have concerts too.

[aknowledgeableperson]

True. But who owns those teams? Local ownership? What other professional sports are in the market?

[KCMax]

True. But who owns those teams? Local ownership? What other professional sports are in the market?

Now you're conflating issues.

There is no issue with booking dates. There is an issue with lack of an owner.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The point about booking is that there are some dates the SC would lose if a NBA/NHL team became a tenant. It seemed that a few posters didn't think SC would lose any dates with a team. And, yes, the SC would lose a few dates with a team with some of those dates bringing in some big bucks.

AEG is making money without a team. Having a team would cost AEG a few events that bring in big bucks and AEG would have to share revenues with the team that it gets to keep 100% now. For AEG the SC could go from moneymaker to money loser.

[KCMax]

The point about booking is that there are some dates the SC would lose if a NBA/NHL team became a tenant. It seemed that a few posters didn't think SC would lose any dates with a team. And, yes, the SC would lose a few dates with a team with some of those dates bringing in some big bucks.

AEG is making money without a team. Having a team would cost AEG a few events that bring in big bucks and AEG would have to share revenues with the team that it gets to keep 100% now. For AEG the SC could go from moneymaker to money loser.

It would be a negligible amount of dates. I don't think you would lose any of the really big dates, since they are so few and far between and you can easily work around schedules.

If AEG really thought they would be a "money loser" they would flat out say it and say they are not pursuing a team. But they haven't. Their comments have amounted to "hey we'd like a team, but even if we don't get one, we're doing fine." And besides, even if a team makes them a money loser - they'd have to be about the only arena operator LOSING money with an NBA/NHL tenant, making AEG fabulously incompetent, and frankly, I don't care if they are a money loser. This arena wasn't built to make AEG money, it was built to house a sports team for this city.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

The point about booking is that there are some dates the SC would lose if a NBA/NHL team became a tenant. It seemed that a few posters didn't think SC would lose any dates with a team. And, yes, the SC would lose a few dates with a team with some of those dates bringing in some big bucks.

AEG is making money without a team. Having a team would cost AEG a few events that bring in big bucks and AEG would have to share revenues with the team that it gets to keep 100% now. For AEG the SC could go from moneymaker to money loser.

So, 3 concerts outweigh 40 games? Even if AEG made 75% less per ticket on sporting events, they'd still be making more money.

[aknowledgeableperson]

If AEG really thought they would be a "money loser" they would flat out say it and say they are not pursuing a team. But they haven't. Their comments have amounted to "hey we'd like a team, but even if we don't get one, we're doing fine." And besides, even if a team makes them a money loser - they'd have to be about the only arena operator LOSING money with an NBA/NHL tenant, making AEG fabulously incompetent, and frankly, I don't care if they are a money loser. This arena wasn't built to make AEG money, it was built to house a sports team for this city.

Why would they say it? It is way easier and publicly more acceptable to say they would like to have a team instead of saying they are not pursuing a team. With regards to being a moneyloser the arena is not that profitable. The city is receiving $1M to $2M a year in profit sharing which is a 50/50 split. Don't get me wrong, the arena makes a ton of money but before the city makes any money almost all of that profit goes to paying back AEG for cost overruns (cost + % interest) plus there is a return of AEG's investment. In other words, instead of X amount of money into AEG's pockets it is A minus amount of money.

So, 3 concerts outweigh 40 games? Even if AEG made 75% less per ticket on sporting events, they'd still be making more money.

I have been told concerts pay $500,000 to use the arena. There are many costs taken out so that AEG doesn't pocket the full amount but still it should make well into the 6 figures for each concert. Now, that is just from the promoter. Concession and t-shirt sales will add to that amount.

Can 3 concerts outweigh 40 games? If you throw in revenue sharing for suites and advertising and some other items the answer plus rent deals it could be YES.

[KCMax]

[quote="aknowledgeableperson"]

Why would they say it? It is way easier and publicly more acceptable to say they would like to have a team instead of saying they are not pursuing a team. /quote]

Why is that "easier." So if a team says they want to move, is AEG going to say "don't move here, we would lose money!"

[TheBigChuckbowski]

So, 3 concerts outweigh 40 games? Even if AEG made 75% less per ticket on sporting events, they'd still be making more money.

I have been told concerts pay $500,000 to use the arena. There are many costs taken out so that AEG doesn't pocket the full amount but still it should make well into the 6 figures for each concert. Now, that is just from the promoter. Concession and t-shirt sales will add to that amount.

Can 3 concerts outweigh 40 games? If you throw in revenue sharing for suites and advertising and some other items the answer plus rent deals it could be YES.

I believe my math is right, Sprint Center would need to get $2.08/ticket for sporting events to make up for the $1.5 million in rent they would get for 3 concerts.

Concessions and t-shirt sales? Hmm...well, there'd be 54,000 people going through the gates for 3 concerts or 720,000 people going through the gates for 40 games. I wonder which would sell more concessions and t-shirts.

[phxcat]

On top of that, people are probably going to buy a lot more concessions at a game, where some people eat and drink the entire time, than at a concert where they are jumping around and singing.

[AJoD]

There are markets our size and smaller that have NHL and NBA teams in their arenas, and yet still have concerts too.

There are markets that are our size, and then again, there are markets that are bigger and some that are smaller. Some of those smaller markets have professional sports teams and live music events, as well as most of the larger markets. And you could say the same for markets that are about our size.

[KCMax]

There are markets our size and smaller that have NHL and NBA teams in their arenas, and yet still have concerts too.

There are markets that are our size, and then again, there are markets that are bigger and some that are smaller. Some of those smaller markets have professional sports teams and live music events, as well as most of the larger markets. And you could say the same for markets that are about our size.

Kings reach deal to stay in Sacramento, get arena

The city, the Kings and the NBA announced a tentative deal Monday to finance an arena that would keep the team in California's capital for the long haul. The City Council will vote on the plan March 6....

Under the proposed terms of the deal, the city will contribute $200 million to $250 million to the estimated $367 million arena, mostly by leasing out parking garages around the facility, a person with knowledge of the negotiations said. The person, speaking on condition of anonymity because the full financing plan will not be made public until at least Thursday, said Sacramento also will create revenue through a ticket surcharge.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I believe my math is right, Sprint Center would need to get $2.08/ticket for sporting events to make up for the $1.5 million in rent they would get for 3 concerts.

Concessions and t-shirt sales? Hmm...well, there'd be 54,000 people going through the gates for 3 concerts or 720,000 people going through the gates for 40 games. I wonder which would sell more concessions and t-shirts.

Deals cut for most teams in markets like KC give the arena to the team rent free for games. Plus the teams get a large portion of revenues from suites and advertising so there is more involved than the $1.5M in lost rent. (When courting the Penguins the offer to the team was a 50/50 split, now it is likely the % would be higher to the team.)

Unless things have changed over the years concerts do more concession sales on a per head basis than sporting events. And with concerts AEG keeps all of the sales, with a team it is likely that there would be the 50/50 or greater split of gross sales with AEG covering the costs with its percentage.

T-shirt sales is greater with concerts. Many going to a game go to multiple games and do not buy a shirt each time. Not saying everyone buys one at concerts but again the per head is higher with concerts. And it is likely that the team would keep 100% of sales so no revenue to AEG with a team.

Here is something further on the matter:
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/arch ... 3850_is_th...

And AEG seems to be intent on using its success with concerts to drive a hard bargain with any sports teams looking to move to Kansas City: AEG president Tim Leiweke told the Star, "The economic model of this building is quite successful. The last thing we or the city want to do is throw away that model and make the arena a loss leader with another tenant. It's a tougher scenario with a professional team. I'm sure we wouldn't be able to write a check to the city for $1.8 million."

And:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/econ/faculty/ ... buildit.pd...

Most venue deals are between the City and the club. Recently, the NBA and NHL have become more involved in local arena/stadium politics, although they bear none of the arena costs. In KC’s case AEG has wedged itself smack in the middle of a complex deal that is hard enough to complete with just two parties—let alone four. Frankly, there is not much left for the club in this deal. The Sprint Center setup is completely backwards—it is so inside out that there isn’t even a team yet—the Sprint Center is all dressed up with no place to go. Now we have AEG offering the Pittsburgh Pens a 50/50 split of all venue revenues, before they have even decided to leave Pittsburgh.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Deals cut for most teams in markets like KC give the arena to the team rent free for games. Plus the teams get a large portion of revenues from suites and advertising so there is more involved than the $1.5M in lost rent. (When courting the Penguins the offer to the team was a 50/50 split, now it is likely the % would be higher to the team.)

So, since hockey tickets are a little more than $4.16, AEG would make money.

Unless things have changed over the years concerts do more concession sales on a per head basis than sporting events. And with concerts AEG keeps all of the sales, with a team it is likely that there would be the 50/50 or greater split of gross sales with AEG covering the costs with its percentage.

T-shirt sales is greater with concerts. Many going to a game go to multiple games and do not buy a shirt each time. Not saying everyone buys one at concerts but again the per head is higher with concerts. And it is likely that the team would keep 100% of sales so no revenue to AEG with a team.

Does each person spend 13 times more money on concessions and t-shirts at concerts? Because that's what they would need to do. And, really? You think AEG keeps more money on t-shirts from concerts than sporting events? What? That's how artists make their money. The venue doesn't get the money from merch sales.

And AEG seems to be intent on using its success with concerts to drive a hard bargain with any sports teams looking to move to Kansas City: AEG president Tim Leiweke told the Star, "The economic model of this building is quite successful. The last thing we or the city want to do is throw away that model and make the arena a loss leader with another tenant. It's a tougher scenario with a professional team. I'm sure we wouldn't be able to write a check to the city for $1.8 million."

I don't believe a word AEG says. They're making excuses for not delivering (or even attempting to) deliver on their promises.

[pash]

.

[kcjak]

The article KCMAX linked to says that AEG is putting up $60 million toward the new arena in Sacramento...

[aknowledgeableperson]

So, since hockey tickets are a little more than $4.16, AEG would make money.
...
Does each person spend 13 times more money on concessions and t-shirts at concerts? Because that's what they would need to do. And, really? You think AEG keeps more money on t-shirts from concerts than sporting events? What? That's how artists make their money. The venue doesn't get the money from merch sales.
...
I don't believe a word AEG says. They're making excuses for not delivering (or even attempting to) deliver on their promises.

The team KEEPS all of the ticket revenue. The 50/50 split refers to other revenues such as suites and advertising.

Artists receive funds from ticket sales and t-shirts. The arena receives a negotiated portion of the t-shirt sales. Sometimes not so great but still better than nothing from sports teams.

Whether you believe AEG or not is up to you. That still doesn't mean what they say is not the truth.

Since SC opened few teams have moved. Those that have moved, I believe, have had local ownership involved. Even if KC had local ownership having AEG involved does complicate the matter since all arena revenues would have to be split 3 ways instead of 2. As pointed out in the Vanderbilt article most deals are between the city and the team. That way the team runs the arena (much like the Chiefs and Royals run their stadiums) and can keep a larger portion of all revenues. And even with that setup a majority of the teams in both leagues lose money.

[Ez Street]

Here we go again with the Phoenix Coyotes:

Darren Dreger of Canadian media outlet TSN reports (via Twitter) that the league will begin investigating a "Plan B" for the franchise that includes a possible relocation, if progress on a sale isn't made this week. Dreger lists Seattle, Quebec City, Las Vegas and Kansas City as being "in (the) mix" as destinations. Those cities have been mentioned frequently in speculation about a potential relocation.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2 ... z1psno7A66

[KCMax]

We're the only one with an NHL arena! No ownership, but couldn't the NHL own them until they find an owner? Seems like an owner would be less hard to find than building a new arena.

[Ez Street]

Speculation right now. Sure, KC gets brought up, but I still don't see it as realistc. that's just based off of no ownership group ready to bring a team here and the fact that AEG has sat on its ass and did nothing to land a team.

Prove me wrong AEG, prove...me...WRONG.