Kansas: Reproach of the Poach

[Highlander]

Last time I received my alumni money request from KU, I let them know that 1) I am a successful businessman who's company matches 1:1 on university donations 2) if Kansas has enough money to offer KC companies millions of dollars to move across the border, I sincerely doubt if KU really needs my donation and 3) in the future, I will donate money to UMKC but not KU including company matching funds due to the practice of Kansas offering money to Kansas City companies to relocate.

  I also copied the note and sent it to the governor who replied with the usual load of BS  that he is always interested in hearing what Kansans think and that these are tough choices to make but they are driven by difficult economic times.  I like the state of Kansas, I went to university there but I am not going to making any further contribution be it donation or even sales tax that provides or frees up funds to offer companies money to move across state line.   

[grovester]

Well done!

[chrizow]

Nice work, Highlander!

[geeman68]

Last time I received my alumni money request from KU, I let them know that 1) I am a successful businessman who's company matches 1:1 on university donations 2) if Kansas has enough money to offer KC companies millions of dollars to move across the border, I sincerely doubt if KU really needs my donation and 3) in the future, I will donate money to UMKC but not KU including company matching funds due to the practice of Kansas offering money to Kansas City companies to relocate.

  I also copied the note and sent it to the governor who replied with the usual load of BS  that he is always interested in hearing what Kansans think and that these are tough choices to make but they are driven by difficult economic times.   I like the state of Kansas, I went to university there but I am not going to making any further contribution be it donation or even sales tax that provides or frees up funds to offer companies money to move across state line.   

[KC Sporting Life]

Last time I received my alumni money request from KU, I let them know that 1) I am a successful businessman who's company matches 1:1 on university donations 2) if Kansas has enough money to offer KC companies millions of dollars to move across the border, I sincerely doubt if KU really needs my donation and 3) in the future, I will donate money to UMKC but not KU including company matching funds due to the practice of Kansas offering money to Kansas City companies to relocate.

  I also copied the note and sent it to the governor who replied with the usual load of BS  that he is always interested in hearing what Kansans think and that these are tough choices to make but they are driven by difficult economic times.   I like the state of Kansas, I went to university there but I am not going to making any further contribution be it donation or even sales tax that provides or frees up funds to offer companies money to move across state line.   

Makes me wish I were a KU Alum just so I could write them the same letter. 

[loftguy]

Bravo, Highlander!

[warwickland]

Well done!

x 2!

[KCMax]

Well done. If things are going to change, officials need to hear from Kansans that are fed up with these corporate hand outs.

[admb4ku]

Last time I received my alumni money request from KU, I let them know that 1) I am a successful businessman who's company matches 1:1 on university donations 2) if Kansas has enough money to offer KC companies millions of dollars to move across the border, I sincerely doubt if KU really needs my donation and 3) in the future, I will donate money to UMKC but not KU including company matching funds due to the practice of Kansas offering money to Kansas City companies to relocate.

  I also copied the note and sent it to the governor who replied with the usual load of BS  that he is always interested in hearing what Kansans think and that these are tough choices to make but they are driven by difficult economic times.   I like the state of Kansas, I went to university there but I am not going to making any further contribution be it donation or even sales tax that provides or frees up funds to offer companies money to move across state line.   

Congrats. You are punishing a university that has nothing to do with the poaching and thinking it will affect the KSU grad governor, who by the way is slashing university and public school funding. He was probably as happy to receive the letter as you were to send it.

[bobbyhawks]

I agree with 90% of the above, but those soliciting donations to the University of Kansas business school and those in the school itself have very little to do with Kansas' job poaching.  Those who work for the University are often the most frustrated with the way things operate, and the current trend in far right "conservatism" is to ignore "intellectuals" from Universities or anyone thinking in terms of the greater good. 

I think the only way anyone in a serious position of power is going to enact change is by appealing to the perspective of the individualist.  This does not come in the form of compromise, but rather simple A to B relationships.  All that JOCO and the state of Kansas can understand right now is A) offer incentive, and B) take jobs from next door, thereby increasing the stature and electability of those in power.  What they really should understand, but is more difficult to run for re-election on is, A) they, along with others in the region, are losing tax revenue and are forced to cut things that are universally deemed to be good things like education, and B) while almost none of that loss in tax revenue is passed on to regular folks as tax savings, even more of the cost to support a state economy is forced onto regular folks every time gigantic incentives are used to lure a company across an imaginary, however taxable, line.  If they want to get all high brow and such, they could explain C) that moving companies a few blocks based on incentives is a idiotic race to the bottom, and D) that a successful region is a better long term strategy than a temporarily successful state in a tax incentive bubble. 

[Highlander]

Congrats. You are punishing a university that has nothing to do with the poaching and thinking it will affect the KSU grad governor, who by the way is slashing university and public school funding. He was probably as happy to receive the letter as you were to send it.

So be it, but the university has absolutley everything to do with it.  Money they receive from donors is money that the state can spend on their corrupt priorities elsewhere.   Those priorities appear to be bribing KC's business's to jump across stateline and they have been very successful.  Perhaps if KU feels some financial pain, they can pressure the government of KS to redirect some of those funds.  It's clear that the state would rather bribe KC's business's to relocate than spend it on the univeristy, and it's my job to protest that priority not rescue the university.    The destruction of Kansas City's business community by poaching from Kansas is by far the greater priority in my opinion.

I care about KU as an institution but I care far, far more about KC remaining a vibrant business center and that, my friend, is in real jeopardy at that moment and the source of that jeopardy is the state of KS.  I'm not going to go into a GRID rant here but the predatory practices are killing KC....and I will do whatever I can to let my voice be known.   I also won't be spending any money in JoCo or Legends...on my subsequent trips to KC, we shop, dine and play exclusively in KCMO.  Sorry if you think that approach is uncalled for but I think it's long overdue.  

[Tunnel]

I stand corrected about Cincinnati, by the way.  Next time I'll actually do my research before opening my mouth.  And your comments about Kansas' lack of respect seem to make sense.  That's probably the core of it, as you point out.

It might be an interesting exercise for those involved in this thread to actually compile a list of companies poached across the state line.  Might help to further characterize the nature of what's actually happening...

[Highlander]

I stand corrected about Cincinnati, by the way.  Next time I'll actually do my research before opening my mouth.  And your comments about Kansas' lack of respect seem to make sense.  That's probably the core of it, as you point out.

It might be an interesting exercise for those involved in this thread to actually compile a list of companies poached across the state line.  Might help to further characterize the nature of what's actually happening...

I'd like to see the list...but outside of Garmin and Sprint, the shorter list would be those business's that did not have original roots in KC.  

Just in this thread alone ...  http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?topic=16074.0 ...which started in 2009, several companies have been named including Key Bank (300 jobs) an architectural firm with 65 jos, another architectural firm with 50, and JP Morgan financial services with several hundred positions....and that's just after a few seconds of perusing.  

[bobbyhawks]

I'm not saying you are wrong to take your money elsewhere, but I don't agree that cutting donations to KU will make a difference.  Kansas is only offering the tax incentives because they are desperate.  They are not imaginative or resourceful enough to think of something else to offer.  Cutting off donations to KU and forcing the state to pony up more for what would end up being a bad situation for all Kansas education would only serve to make the state more desperate and more willing to try anything to take businesses from anywhere (but specifically targeted to those easiest to move).  The problem isn't that Kansas is making all of these shrewd moves that Missouri cannot compete with.  The problem is that Kansas is making very stupid moves that could hurt them and those around a lot down the road.  The less money they have, the dumber the ideas.  It is game theory with the difficult task of getting Player B to not "cheat," when they are always at least as successful as Player A when they do "cheat."

[Highlander]

I'm not saying you are wrong to take your money elsewhere, but I don't agree that cutting donations to KU will make a difference.  Kansas is only offering the tax incentives because they are desperate.  They are not imaginative or resourceful enough to think of something else to offer.  Cutting off donations to KU and forcing the state to pony up more for what would end up being a bad situation for all Kansas education would only serve to make the state more desperate and more willing to try anything to take businesses from anywhere (but specifically targeted to those easiest to move).  The problem isn't that Kansas is making all of these shrewd moves that Missouri cannot compete with.  The problem is that Kansas is making very stupid moves that could hurt them and those around a lot down the road.  The less money they have, the dumber the ideas.  It is game theory with the difficult task of getting Player B to not "cheat," when they are always at least as successful as Player A when they do "cheat."

I think if enough people show their disgust with the policy with their votes and pocketbook, they will eventually give it up.  Votes and money talk and I intend to let my money talk as much as it can since I don't vote in Kansas.  I encourage yourself and admb4KU to do the same.  It's a policy that is absolutely killing Kansas City and that's the greater priority to me, at least, than higher education in Kansas.     

I do not think the state of Kansas is all that desperate; I think they just see business's in Kansas City as easy pickings as the city does not have the funds to compete.  It doesn't take much in terms of free money to get a corporation to move a few blocks away; there's almost no cost to them.  It's a calculated risk, for certain, but Kansas City does not have a large enough corporate community to let this fester another few years for the Kansas government to learn a lesson.  It needs to end now.  Downtown KC is on the verge of being seriously damaged and the whole thing puts KC taxpayers more and more on the line for paying off the P&L District which depends on business in downtown to make it work. 

[ThaMexican]

I agree with Highlander while I work in Kansas and really like the State I dislike the policy to poach companies, so I too avoid at all costs to buy anything in KS. I try to tell my wife to go north for any stores we do not have close to the Westside and try to buy the rest in stores in the core of the city.

[FangKC]

I have said this before and I'll introduce the idea again.  Corporations and business leaders are behind these tax incentive wars in both states. They have a lot of influence in both state legislatures--especially among Republicans.  They got Kansas to do them first, and now they have got Missouri to come up with opposing incentives.

They are playing both sides of the state line for their own benefit to get out of paying taxes and contributing to their communities.

What we will see in the future is companies that have jumped to Kansas for the incentives package coming back to Missouri once those incentives have expired.  The taxpayers of both states are the losers in the end.

The only party that is benefitting from this is companies. Follow the money.

[moosnsqrl]

So be it, but the university has absolutley everything to do with it.  Money they receive from donors is money that the state can spend on their corrupt priorities elsewhere.   Those priorities appear to be bribing KC's business's to jump across stateline and they have been very successful.  Perhaps if KU feels some financial pain, they can pressure the government of KS to redirect some of those funds.  It's clear that the state would rather bribe KC's business's to relocate than spend it on the univeristy, and it's my job to protest that priority not rescue the university.    The destruction of Kansas City's business community by poaching from Kansas is by far the greater priority in my opinion.

I care about KU as an institution but I care far, far more about KC remaining a vibrant business center and that, my friend, is in real jeopardy at that moment and the source of that jeopardy is the state of KS.  I'm not going to go into a GRID rant here but the predatory practices are killing KC....and I will do whatever I can to let my voice be known.   I also won't be spending any money in JoCo or Legends...on my subsequent trips to KC, we shop, dine and play exclusively in KCMO.  Sorry if you think that approach is uncalled for but I think it's long overdue.  

Having matriculated at both schools, I understand your motive but wouldn't give a nickel to UMKC and agree with the others that KU has little/no influence over the offering of corporate incentives.

[Highlander]

They are playing both sides of the state line for their own benefit to get out of paying taxes and contributing to their communities.

The only party that is benefitting from this is companies. Follow the money.

I think you have the cart before the horse on this one.  The use of incentives have evolved through time.  First, they were simply tools to get development in areas headed downhill and then Kansas started using them for greenfield.  I really doubt if any of this was initiated by the companies that have benefitted.  Most really don't want to move unless forced by growth or other reasons; it is disruptive to business.  When Kansas started courting every KCMO company with a near term lease expiration with an inordinate amount of money, the thing started spinning out of control to the point where it is now.  Kansas is and was the guilty party, they saw easy pickings by offering local companies money to move a few blocks and Missouri had to follow suite to keep up.  Now incentives are the expectations; the way it's being done is pretty unique to KC.  Don't put this on the companies, you have zero evidence to support your thesis; it had purely political origins and has been going on through various democratic and republican tenures in the governor's seat. 

[Highlander]

Having matriculated at both schools, I understand your motive but wouldn't give a nickel to UMKC and agree with the others that KU has little/no influence over the offering of corporate incentives.

Like I said.  I don't care what influence KU has.  Any donation to KU could concievably free up money for the state to spend elsewhere including to lure Missouri business.  Consequently, they are not getting anything from me.  UMKC is located in the urban core of Kansas City.  I cannot think of a better place to spend my money.