Denver Skyline

[DanCa]

To a point that is true. Houston's skyline is very impressive and has some great architecture but at street level, it's pretty drab.  They have a Hard Rock Cafe, for example, but it's stand alone, not part of any walkable entertainment district.  They have an aquarium, baseball stadium and a decent cultural district but it's failed to inspire any kind of feeling of vitality downtown.  KC's downtown is much smaller but feels far more alive. 

Same thing with downtown L.A.  It pretty much dies after 5 p.m. How's the P & L District doing?  Has it made a big change in traffic downtown?  I haven't seen it finished yet. 

Personally I like Denver's skyline.  It's pretty nice at street level too, considering the 16th St. Mall, Larimer Square, the Pavillions, and the addition this year of three condo towers.  There were already a few condo/apartment towers existing.  Plus so many low to mid rise condo projects that have been built in recent years.  It's not Midtown Manhattan, but it's not dead either. 

Portland and San Antonio come to mind as cities with bland skylines, but quite a lot going on at street level.

[grovester]

To a point that is true. Houston's skyline is very impressive and has some great architecture but at street level, it's pretty drab.  They have a Hard Rock Cafe, for example, but it's stand alone, not part of any walkable entertainment district.  They have an aquarium, baseball stadium and a decent cultural district but it's failed to inspire any kind of feeling of vitality downtown.  KC's downtown is much smaller but feels far more alive.  

there were a few blocks back from Hard Rock, maybe an old rehabbed hotel that was turned to condos?  It was a New Orleans type building, with a low slung balcony on the second floor, sat on a nice corner lot. there were some local restaurants and the ever good Flying Saucer!  I thought there were seeds of something when we were out last summer.  While there weren't a  lot of folks on the street, it was the middle of the week, and I saw bicyclists at 9pm downtown, always a good sign!

[KCMax]

I don't think Denver compares to Portland or Seattle, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being one of the best cities in American not named Portland or Seattle.

[rxlexi]

I always wonder what Denver might have developed like in recent in years if the Rockies weren't a part of the scene.  And by that I mean, it's easy to explain away the success that metro has had by saying that folks move there for the mountains, but clearly the region has made a lot of the right moves in the last 10-15 years.  I agree that Denver is overrated, but KC could certainly learn a thing or two about regional development from Denver - LRT, Tech Center, quality urban university, modern low rise infill everywhere.  They've made a lot of great moves. 

Or maybe it really is the mountains (and colorado wilderness, etc.).  And the population growth they've encouraged.

[rxlexi]

  I'll also add that the Denver skyline is decent, and probably more "impressive" than KC's, but much less beautiful.  The mix of buildings and general composition of our skyline, combined with the surrounding hills and greenery, and the urban valley composed of DT/Xroads/Westside/Crown Center/PVP is tough to beat for most mid-sized cities, IMO.

  Granted, I'd trade a couple of those hills or deco towers for a sweet, regional LRT line or DT baseball stadium

[Highlander]

I always wonder what Denver might have developed like in recent in years if the Rockies weren't a part of the scene.  And by that I mean, it's easy to explain away the success that metro has had by saying that folks move there for the mountains, but clearly the region has made a lot of the right moves in the last 10-15 years.  I agree that Denver is overrated, but KC could certainly learn a thing or two about regional development from Denver - LRT, Tech Center, quality urban university, modern low rise infill everywhere.  They've made a lot of great moves. 

Or maybe it really is the mountains (and colorado wilderness, etc.).  And the population growth they've encouraged.

The beautiful setting is also the key element in Portland and Seattle's growth too.  In a way it is a curse, California has certainly experienced problems due to the growth as a result of its setting and climate. 

[shinatoo]

The beautiful setting is also the key element in Portland and Seattle's growth too.  In a way it is a curse, California has certainly experienced problems due to the growth as a result of its setting and climate. 

Which is why Denver has grown like it has. Migration trends show a disproportionate number of Californians moving to Denver. Probably as a cheap alternative to living at the base of the mountains.

[DanCa]

Which is why Denver has grown like it has. Migration trends show a disproportionate number of Californians moving to Denver. Probably as a cheap alternative to living at the base of the mountains.

We moved here from California - after 9 years in CA.  It's an easy move coming from California and not culture shock.  The mountain views are nice, and a lot of people in the city are into skiing and hiking.  In 2005 we were able to sell a small condo in CA and get a nice house in Denver for about the same price we sold the condo for.  You couldn't do that today, considering how far the CA real estate market has sunk.  Our house in Denver is still worth more than we paid for it, so it was a wise move.

[DanCa]

  I'll also add that the Denver skyline is decent, and probably more "impressive" than KC's, but much less beautiful.  The mix of buildings and general composition of our skyline, combined with the surrounding hills and greenery, and the urban valley composed of DT/Xroads/Westside/Crown Center/PVP is tough to beat for most mid-sized cities, IMO.

  Granted, I'd trade a couple of those hills or deco towers for a sweet, regional LRT line or DT baseball stadium

Agreed.  The old Art Deco buildings in KC are beautiful, and add an impressive layer to the skyline.  One thing I like more about downtown Denver is that neighborhoods with generally well-kept, century old homes surround it and it's not as cut off by freeways as downtown KC.

[ignatius]

Which is why Denver has grown like it has. Migration trends show a disproportionate number of Californians moving to Denver. Probably as a cheap alternative to living at the base of the mountains.

Denver definitely was Californicated like Phoenix, though KC surprisingly has more in-migration from SoCal than from any other region too.  Not to the degree of Denver though.

What surprises me is that Denver labor force is shrinking for the first time since, like ever..
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyO ... ol=XGtable


Minneapolis labor force is also surprisingly shrinking (STL is too), yet KC labor force continues to grow (comparing month to previous years)...
http://data.bls.gov/servlet/SurveyOutpu ... ol=XGtable

[Highlander]

Denver definitely was Californicated like Phoenix, though KC surprisingly has more in-migration from SoCal than from any other region too.  Not to the degree of Denver though.

What surprises me is that Denver labor force is shrinking for the first time since, like ever..
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyO ... ol=XGtable

I believe Denver's labor force shrunk considerably with the energy crash in the mid - late 80's.  Incidentally, a lot of people in Denver are underemployed as they are willing to stay there for the outdoor opportunities.  I was one of them but decided my retirement wasn't going to be very pleasant if I lived hand to mouth in an expensive city my entire working life. 

[warwickland]

What surprises me is that Denver labor force is shrinking for the first time since, like ever..
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyO ... ol=XGtable

The town conceived, born and raised in a mining boom began to look like a bust during the 1860s. Between 1860 and 1870, the town gained only 10 additional residents. The U. S. Census of 1870 counted 4,759 Denver residents, not the predicted 100,000.

Editor Bill Byers fumed about what he called "go-backers" in the Rocky Mountain News: "Because they cannot shovel out nuggets like they have been accustomed to dig potatoes, they raise the cry that it is all a humbug and take the back track for home where it is to be hoped that they will ever after remain."

Denver's doldrums, as Byers pointed out, could only be relieved by railroad connections. The town's isolated position 600 miles from the nearest urban centers along the Missouri River retarded growth.

-

Denver after 1893 began to lose population for the first time since the mid-1860s. An estimated 10,000 people left the city after the 1893 crash. Even the President of the Chamber of Commerce, mining magnate John F. Campion, admitted that "public spirit is as dead as Lot's wife after she was turned to a pillar of salt."

-

The crash came in the mid-1980s as the price of oil slid from $34 a barrel in 1981 to $9 a barrel in 1986. Once again unemployment and office vacancy rates soared. Some 13,000 Denver oil industry workers lost their jobs. In 1985 and 1986, a downtown Denver overbuilt during the energy boom of the 1970s and early 1980s had the highest office vacancy rate in the nation?30 percent. Republic Plaza, the tallest of 10 new office towers sprouting skyward between 1978 and 1983, stood strangely quiet, a 56-story ghost.

In March 1987, downtown office space, which once commanded as much as $40 per square foot, was auctioned off for prices closer to $5 per square foot. A 2,348-square-foot office on the 13th floor of the once-proud Denver Club Building leased for 10 cents a square foot.

http://www.denvergov.org/AboutDenver/hi ... rative.asp

[ignatius]

^Despite my realized exaggeration in that statement, thanks for correcting me.

[warwickland]

^Despite my realized exaggeration in that statement, thanks for correcting me.

no prob! 

[DanCa]

The crash came in the mid-1980s as the price of oil slid from $34 a barrel in 1981 to $9 a barrel in 1986. Once again unemployment and office vacancy rates soared. Some 13,000 Denver oil industry workers lost their jobs. In 1985 and 1986, a downtown Denver overbuilt during the energy boom of the 1970s and early 1980s had the highest office vacancy rate in the nation?30 percent. Republic Plaza, the tallest of 10 new office towers sprouting skyward between 1978 and 1983, stood strangely quiet, a 56-story ghost.

In March 1987, downtown office space, which once commanded as much as $40 per square foot, was auctioned off for prices closer to $5 per square foot. A 2,348-square-foot office on the 13th floor of the once-proud Denver Club Building leased for 10 cents a square foot.

http://www.denvergov.org/AboutDenver/hi ... rative.asp

Interesting... and probably why Denver built no skyscrapers in the '90s since they'd already overbuilt.  Since 2005 there have been 6 buildings from about 25 to 45 stories built and a few lower than that, but mostly infill condos all over.  Currently there's only a 17 story hotel under construction and 2 or 3 decent skyscrapers on hold.