The KCMO School District

[BSykes]

Where is your source to dispute it?

Don't be ridiculous. You are the one making the claim... Back it up.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Not being rediculous, just staing what many believe.  Go ahead and prove our beliefs wrong.

[BSykes]

Not being rediculous, just staing what many believe.  Go ahead and prove our beliefs wrong.

Ha ha. I don't mean to draw this out, but...

1. You are telling us that you aren't sure why you believe what you believe? Not surprising.

2. Nice spelling.

3. You made a claim, and unless you provide some sort of proof, I'm sure everyone will just assume that your claim was baseless. Good work.

[KCMax]

Which would be a lower rate than many suburban school districts.  If you believe that maybe you will buy a bridge in NY.

If it is 10% then many of the remaining 90% graduate without even a 8th grade education.

Selected suburban school drop out rates:

Blue Valley West 0.8%
Shawnee Mission East 0.9%
Truman 4.2%
Turner 6.3%
Lee's Summit North 1.6%
Blue Springs 1.9%
Oak Park 3.5%
Liberty 3.6%

Kansas state average 3.7%
Missouri state average 4.3%

Lincoln Prep 1.3%
Center 14%

Source: http://www.city-data.com/

[chrizow]

Westport - 13.4%
Central - 14%

Hickman Mills - 0.7%  (i refuse to believe this)
Ruskin - 0.9%  (same)

[aknowledgeableperson]

There are two different numbers to look at, related to a degree but different.  One number is the dropout percentage the other is the graduation rate.  In reviewing selected data (from city data) it appears the dropout rates are quite lower than the graduation rates.  So I guess the questions are what defines a "dropout" and how is "graduation rate" determined?  One article found does help to some degree to make the difference between the two and here goes:

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_31.htm

Official graduation statistics are too often based upon definitions or allow exemptions that prevent the results from conforming to our common-sense understanding of what a graduation rate should be. Most people consider any student that finishes high school with a regular high school diploma to be a graduate and students who fail to do so as dropouts. Too often official graduation statistics fail to meet this criterion. For example, in Washington State only students who have completed the paper work necessary to be officially considered dropouts are reported as such. Students who did not fill out the necessary paperwork but are no longer in school are considered “unknown”, though the state admits that many of them are in fact dropouts.

A report by the Manhattan Institute and the Black Alliance for Educational Options published last year, “High School Graduation Rates in the United States,” addressed these problems by introducing the Greene Method to calculate graduation rates simply and with reasonable accuracy. The technique produces an accurate estimate of the graduation rate by comparing the number of students that enter a high school class to the number of students receiving a regular diploma, with some adjustments for population change.


Basically, forget the dropout rate and use the graduation rate, which is more reflective of how many students actually finish high school.

1. You are telling us that you aren't sure why you believe what you believe? Not surprising.

2. Nice spelling.

3. You made a claim, and unless you provide some sort of proof, I'm sure everyone will just assume that your claim was baseless. Good work.

True, there was a misspelling, but so what.  It does happen at times but does that discredit the whole post?
My belief/claim comes from many sources in the past.  A few years ago the Star did publish an article concerning "graduation rates" and KCMOSD performed quite poorly compared to other area SDs but at the same time there were some surprises with the outlaying SDs, one being BeltonSD having a rather low graduation rate.
At the same time how many local SDs are having  state accreditation problems and what are their names?  One comes to mind at that is the KCMOSD.  And there have been many articles in the past concerning classroom performance, in particular No Child Left Behind grades, and the KCMOSD overall does not perform well.  And, as a side note, go to the city data web site and look up the education results for some of the various schools  - you might actually learn something.

True, there are other area school districts that have their problems, Hickman Mills being one, but what started this latest discussion was the following:

The Pitch has an article this week showing how the KCMO SD managed to drastically cut drop out rates this year. Apparently their old system of tracking students was from the 17th century, so students that had long ago left the district, or missing files were counted as "drop outs". They upgraded the system to reflect the district more accurately, and it shows the drop out rate is really like 10% rather than 40%.

so my comments pertain to KCMOSD for now.

Again, if you can disprove my belief or refute the claim go ahead, I give you permission.  If you can't then you can hold on to your beliefs and I will mine.  But, since you have not disputed my belief/claim I can take that to mean you are unable to and therefore your posting is meaningless.

[KCMax]

The original post and Pitch story cited drop out rates, not graduation rates. Maybe graduation rates are a better way of evaluating schools, but that wasn't the point of the original post. The point was the SD had messed up drop out rates for years, and had now modernized their system to reflect a more accurate 10% drop out rate, which is still unfortunately higher than suburban drop out rates.

In any case, I agree that most of those graduating the KCMO School District are doing so without basic skills - I believe the Star had a story on that last year. And the drop out rate change just illustrates how far behind the SD is in basic administration - they couldn't even keep track of their own students. John Covington has a daunting challenge ahead of him.

[GRID]

Although there are exceptions to the rule such as students that attend Lincoln Prep or those that have parents that are involved and care, the vast majority of those that graduate from KCMOSD do so with an elementary level of education, if that.  Some make it all the way through the district and graduate without knowing how to read, which is just incredible.  For the most part, there is no comparison between most of KCMO’s schools and any suburban school when it comes to what the students actually learn.  Many schools in that district are nothing more than free babysitting services.

[BSykes]

Again, if you can disprove my belief or refute the claim go ahead, I give you permission.  If you can't then you can hold on to your beliefs and I will mine.  But, since you have not disputed my belief/claim I can take that to mean you are unable to and therefore your posting is meaningless.

Ha ha. Thanks for giving me permission. I do appreciate it, but you seem to have read something into what I was saying and missed my point altogether. I was, and am still not trying, to disprove you. Whether or not I agree with you is irrelevant. You do yourself and others like you a disservice by making anecdotal and/or baseless claims and presenting them as fact. If you want to make a claim - have the facts to back it up. You will save all of us a lot of time and energy by just pointing us in the right direction.

[aknowledgeableperson]

All you have to do is educate yourself on the KCMOSD and you will find out my statements are not out of line.  If every school in the district was like Lincoln College Prep then the district would not have a problem and people wouldn't be trying to enroll their kids into charter schools and the Van Horn area would not have been trying to switch to the Independence SD.

Sometimes the information you gather by yourself means more than something handed to you on a platter.  Review the districts test scores on statewide tests, No Child Left Behind findings, the district accreditation woes, superintendent turnover, and so on.  Even review earlier postings by others on this topic.

If you don't want to accept the statement as fact, believe it or not, you are perfectly free to do so.  If you have your doubts then feel free to do your own research (that is something I think you are capable of doing).

As I said before, just read the rest of the postings on this topic.  Even if your time is tight that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

[chrizow]

i don't think there is any question that the KCMO schools are underperforming, and that most of them face extremely steep challenges due to the situations many of the students come from. 

one bright spot is acadamie lafayette.  pretty much every parent in the city wants to get their kids into that school - and with good reason.  first charter school to get a gold star award, top rankings in MAP scores, etc.  there need to be about 20 more schools with that level of success in the city.

[BSykes]

All you have to do is educate yourself on the KCMOSD and you will find out my statements are not out of line.  If every school in the district was like Lincoln College Prep then the district would not have a problem and people wouldn't be trying to enroll their kids into charter schools and the Van Horn area would not have been trying to switch to the Independence SD.

Sometimes the information you gather by yourself means more than something handed to you on a platter.  Review the districts test scores on statewide tests, No Child Left Behind findings, the district accreditation woes, superintendent turnover, and so on.  Even review earlier postings by others on this topic.

If you don't want to accept the statement as fact, believe it or not, you are perfectly free to do so.  If you have your doubts then feel free to do your own research (that is something I think you are capable of doing).

As I said before, just read the rest of the postings on this topic.  Even if your time is tight that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

Please don't take this personally, but you are not very intelligent... I am going to make this very simple, and then I am going to drop it:

I was and am not disputing that Kansas City, MO schools are underperforming.

You were asked where you got your stats because I wanted to know where you were getting your information.

You said that it didn't matter because you believed that they were right, "and so do a bunch of other people."

FYI: When you make a claim that includes numbers, percentages, etc., it is customary to provide a source of information. This is so people know that you are not just pulling numbers out of your ass.

one bright spot is acadamie lafayette.  pretty much every parent in the city wants to get their kids into that school - and with good reason.  first charter school to get a gold star award, top rankings in MAP scores, etc.  there need to be about 20 more schools with that level of success in the city.

From what I hear, Academie Lafayette is wonderful. Several of my neighbors and coworker's children go there...

Pardon my ignorance, but who is responsible for funding charter schools like this? I know they still get public money, but isn't there usually another outside source of funding?

[kucer]

]

From what I hear, Academie Lafayette is wonderful. Several of my neighbors and coworker's children go there...

Pardon my ignorance, but who is responsible for funding charter schools like this? I know they still get public money, but isn't there usually another outside source of funding?

That would be me. I buy a whole lot of trashbags from the neighborhood Lafayetters'.  Aside from fundraising, I would assume they apply for grants and such.

It is a great school. My buddy's son across the street from us just returned from a 2 week jaunt in a Paris suburb as part of an exchange program they offer.  That came out of pocket  though.

[beautyfromashes]

Does anyone know a good website to look at school ratings private, public and charter schools in the area?

[KCMax]

Does anyone know a good website to look at school ratings private, public and charter schools in the area?

http://www.greatschools.net/

[LenexatoKCMO]

Former KC Superintendent Amato has been shit-canned 14 months into his new gig with Stockton, CA after causing much turmoil.  http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1464591.html  I never understand why these school districts seem to think it is a good idea to recycle someone who has failed elsewhere.  I believe we have fallen into the same trap here before more than once as well. 

[mudjack]

I wonder what his severance package looked like.

[mlind]

A teacher of my daughter's told me that when the teachers' union in a city that is looking to hire an unpopular superintendent calls, they always give him/her a good recommendation because they want to get rid of him/her.

Many years ago, I remember that KC hired a superintendent from a local district in the SF Bay Area who had almost destroyed the district.  He did the same thing in KC.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Many years ago, I remember that KC hired a superintendent from a local district in the SF Bay Area who had almost destroyed the district.  He did the same thing in KC.

Richmond I believe. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

I never understand why these school districts seem to think it is a good idea to recycle someone who has failed elsewhere.

Like some baseball managers and football and basketball coaches.  Had a friend a few years back (coached soccer together) who was a long time member of a school board (smaller sd) and he provided some insight.

For bigger school districts there are not that many people who are actually qualified(?) to handle a school district with many problems.  The good ones stay put, the bad ones go from job to job.  But in some of those cases it is not the Administrator who is the problem it is the school district board and sometimes it is hard to determine which is the case.