Chiefs

[WSPanic]

that's the spirit of a true kansas city fan, lets CONTINUE to give up on trying to develop our own guy and CONTINUE to win with somebody elses. god knows 21 seasons without a qb the chiefs drafted winning a game is not long enough.

Actually - you have the true spirit of Kansas City Fandom. Act like you know what you're talking about by saying the Chiefs should do the exact opposite of what they've been doing because that is "obviously the way to win."

Wouldn't it be best if we hired actual football people to evaluate the available talent and then decide a course of action? In some situations it's better to take the 26 yr old QB with one year of playoff experience and minimal wear/tear from college and the pros - rather than taking a chance on an unproven commodity that may be years away from competing.

I honestly don't know - none of us do. But it is worth discussing. Or, you could just take your usual course of calling people names, etc.

Chances are, one of the two top QBs is going to suck. Matt Cassel has shown he can compete. Anyone who comes in here to run this organization should seriously consider him as an option.

[KCMax]

that's the spirit of a true kansas city fan, lets CONTINUE to give up on trying to develop our own guy and CONTINUE to win with somebody elses. god knows 21 seasons without a qb the chiefs drafted winning a game is not long enough.

besides, brady is not healed. and brady will not start the 2009 season. new england would be wise to hold on to cassell. long term for that matter. get brady back healthy, trade the guy for a pair of first rounders and develop around the younger cassell. that is what stud franchises do, cut the ties when the time is right.

???? I think most KC fans want to draft and develop a QB, which I don't get because most often it takes years for such a player to develop and even then it is a crapshoot. I think most fans are sick of losing. I don't know why we NEED to draft and develop a guy. Len Dawson wasn't drafted by the Chiefs. Bill Kenney wasn't drafted by the Chiefs. We went pretty far with Steve DeBerg, Joe Montana, Dave Krieg, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac and Trent Green and none of them were drafted by the Chiefs. What is so great about drafting and developing QBs? Do you get extra points for doing so?

Just get me the best QB period. If the new GM thinks its Sam Bradford, that's fine. My personal opinion is that none of these college QBs look like franchise QBs and Matt Cassell could step in and make us winners right away. Would he leave New England? I don't know. I suspect he might follow the money if it came down to that.

[kcdcchef]

Actually - you have the true spirit of Kansas City Fandom. Act like you know what you're talking about by saying the Chiefs should do the exact opposite of what they've been doing because that is "obviously the way to win."

Wouldn't it be best if we hired actual football people to evaluate the available talent and then decide a course of action? In some situations it's better to take the 26 yr old QB with one year of playoff experience and minimal wear/tear from college and the pros - rather than taking a chance on an unproven commodity that may be years away from competing.

I honestly don't know - none of us do. But it is worth discussing. Or, you could just take your usual course of calling people names, etc.

Chances are, one of the two top QBs is going to suck. Matt Cassel has shown he can compete. Anyone who comes in here to run this organization should seriously consider him as an option.

i call no one names without being provoked first.

you guys on here are all right and correct. nfl writers and analysts are all stupid and dumb. they too are clamoring for the chiefs to continue to rebuild with their own guy, be it thigpen or a draft pick.

i have been watching patiently for 3 decades for the chiefs to develop their own talent under center. i watched as a young man as the chiefs passed on marino, elway, and even kelly. i watched as the chiefs passed on steve young. i watched as the chiefs passed on good qb's in the draft this season they could have had. and i am tired of waiting. and i am not alone.

the chiefs way of doing business for 20 plus seasons has merely kept the fan base, myself included, satisfied. bringing in deberg, krieg, montana, bono, grbac, green, and huard, thinking we were close enough without a good field general, was just dumb. montana was done, grbac was a wanna be, trent green was the 2nd best chiefs qb ever, but not a manning/favre in terms of winning on his own, i dont even wanna talk about krieg, deberg, and bono. the chiefs have been afraid, nay, scared to develop a qb since todd blackledge. they failed, and have been gunshy ever since. a quarter of a fucken century. name me another nfl team that has went that long. shit, even detroit, arizona, and cincinatti have developed qb's that have strung together a few wins in that time period. fuck, arizona went to the playoffs with theirs ( plummer )

so, you be satisfied with another spare parts fit. not me. i am fine with 2-14 if we keep trying to build a team, versus bailing for another 10-6 wild card.

???? I think most KC fans want to draft and develop a QB, which I don't get because most often it takes years for such a player to develop and even then it is a crapshoot. I think most fans are sick of losing. I don't know why we NEED to draft and develop a guy. Len Dawson wasn't drafted by the Chiefs. Bill Kenney wasn't drafted by the Chiefs. We went pretty far with Steve DeBerg, Joe Montana, Dave Krieg, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac and Trent Green and none of them were drafted by the Chiefs. What is so great about drafting and developing QBs? Do you get extra points for doing so?

Just get me the best QB period. If the new GM thinks its Sam Bradford, that's fine. My personal opinion is that none of these college QBs look like franchise QBs and Matt Cassell could step in and make us winners right away. Would he leave New England? I don't know. I suspect he might follow the money if it came down to that.

and as i pointed out, none of those bastards were buildable around. they provided moments of greatness, sure, but we won no championships of ANY kind. montana was awesome, but he was a one year wonder. trent green was the 2nd best chief qb ever, but he was not championship material. i hate that prick ben roethlisberger, but look at the guy. LOOK AT HIM. he is a franchise qb, that is built around, that gives you legitimate hope for what, 15 seasons. the manning brothers? carson palmer?? phillip rivers? jay cutler? ryan? flacco?

i am sick of the chiefs using band aids to fix things for a few years, then give up. please, build a team, build a winner.

[KCMax]

you guys on here are all right and correct. nfl writers and analysts are all stupid and dumb. they too are clamoring for the chiefs to continue to rebuild with their own guy, be it thigpen or a draft pick.

Like who?

i have been watching patiently for 3 decades for the chiefs to develop their own talent under center. i watched as a young man as the chiefs passed on marino, elway, and even kelly.

They passed on all those guys to....draft and develop their own QB. Todd Blackledge. Actually, they didn't have a shot at Elway, he was taken #1 overall by Baltimore.

i watched as the chiefs passed on steve young.

No, you didn't. Young was taken first overall in the supplemental draft. The Chiefs never had a shot at him.

i watched as the chiefs passed on good qb's in the draft this season they could have had.

Joe Flacco was the only one they passed on, and they guy they chose instead, CB Brandon Flowers, was one of their lone bright spots this year.

the chiefs way of doing business for 20 plus seasons has merely kept the fan base, myself included, satisfied. bringing in deberg, krieg, montana, bono, grbac, green, and huard, thinking we were close enough without a good field general, was just dumb. montana was done, grbac was a wanna be, trent green was the 2nd best chiefs qb ever, but not a manning/favre in terms of winning on his own, i dont even wanna talk about krieg, deberg, and bono.

Just last week you were singing Carl's praises for how well we did in the 90s. Now it was dumb? I have my qualms about Carl, but the 90s were pretty good. Maybe we weren't close, but would we have been closer with a drafted and developed QB? I don't see it. What QB in the 90s should we have chosen that would have ended up great? Peyton Manning was not available. Donovan McNabb was not available. Steve McNair was not available. So who?

the chiefs have been afraid, nay, scared to develop a qb since todd blackledge. they failed, and have been gunshy ever since. a quarter of a fucken century.

For good reason. It is such a crapshoot.

name me another nfl team that has went that long. shit, even detroit, arizona, and cincinatti have developed qb's that have strung together a few wins in that time period. fuck, arizona went to the playoffs with theirs ( plummer )

Why does it matter if you draft a QB or not? If you have a good QB, you have a good QB. You don't get extra points for drafting the guy.

i hate that prick ben roethlisberger, but look at the guy. LOOK AT HIM. he is a franchise qb, that is built around, that gives you legitimate hope for what, 15 seasons. the manning brothers? carson palmer?? phillip rivers? jay cutler? ryan? flacco

Of all those guys, only Flacco was on the board for the Chiefs to select.

so, you be satisfied with another spare parts fit. not me. i am fine with 2-14 if we keep trying to build a team, versus bailing for another 10-6 wild card.

I think Matt Cassell cam immediately bring us to respectability. Use the draft picks to build up defense with young hungry players. I think QB needs to be a calm, tenured QB who knows what he's doing. Just my two cents.

[KCMax]

Just out of curiousity, here are the 1st and 2nd round QBs the Chiefs passed on:

2008 - Joe Flacco, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne
2007 - Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton
2006 - Tavaris Jackson
2005 - Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell
2004 - none
2003 - none
2002 - Patrick Ramsey
2001 - none
2000 - none
1999 - Shaun King
1998 - Charlie Batch
1997 - Jim Druckenmiller, Jake Plummer
1996 - Tony Banks
1995 - Todd Collins, Kordell Stewart
1994 - none
1993 - none
1992 - Tommy Maddox, Dave Brown, Tony Sacca (Chiefs took Matt Blunden in the 2nd round)
1991 - Todd Marinovich, Brett Favre, Browning Nagle
1990 - none

Aaron Rodgers has certainly turned out well, but it would have been laughable for the Chiefs to have passed up an impact defensive player like Derrick Johnson to draft another QB when they already had Trent Green and a bigtime offense, but a laughable defense.

Jake Plummer was okay for awhile, but if you select him, that means you can't get the best tight end who ever played the game - Tony Gonzalez.

Brett Favre is the obvious choice on who we whiffed on. Of course, everyone whiffed on him, including the team that drafted him - Atlanta.

I guess I'm not really seeing all these franchise QBs we passed up

[kcdcchef]

 

I guess I'm not really seeing all these franchise QBs we passed up

you are tapdancing around the point to try and prove yourself some sort of football genius. all you are doing is showing you have more time to waste in the daytime. the other teams have taken chances on developing a stud, and won superbowls, conference titles, won serious playoff games. have the chiefs?

[bbqboy]

On another note, is bringing  back marty as front office a real idea, or just speculation?

[KCMax]

you are tapdancing around the point to try and prove yourself some sort of football genius. all you are doing is showing you have more time to waste in the daytime. the other teams have taken chances on developing a stud, and won superbowls, conference titles, won serious playoff games. have the chiefs?

And you are avoiding the question entirely to avoid looking foolish. Who exactly should the Chiefs have taken? Should they have taken that gamble on Dave Brown? Should they have developed Jim Druckenmiller?  Could Patrick Ramsey be leading them to a Super Bowl this year if Carl hadn't made such a poor draft blunder?

You spend so much time admonishing us for criticizing what others do, saying we could do no better. Well I'm giving you the chance. What would you have done differently? What QB would you have taken the chance on? Its nice to say we should have drafted and developed a QB, but we can't just create one out of thin air. We had to draft one at our position, so which one that was available would you have taken?

[WSPanic]

you are tapdancing around the point to try and prove yourself some sort of football genius. all you are doing is showing you have more time to waste in the daytime. the other teams have taken chances on developing a stud, and won superbowls, conference titles, won serious playoff games. have the chiefs?

i call no one names without being provoked first.  

That was predictable. Chef loses argument - therefore KCMax knows nothing about football and has nothing to do with his pathetic excuse for a life than post on a stupid message board (unlike Chef and his uber-busy schedule that only allows for 50 posts in a day).

Answer one question - if the people evaluating talent determine that Matt Cassel has more tools and is willing to sign, should the Chiefs still draft a QB?

[kcdcchef]

And you are avoiding the question entirely to avoid looking foolish. Who exactly should the Chiefs have taken? Should they have taken that gamble on Dave Brown? Should they have developed Jim Druckenmiller?  Could Patrick Ramsey be leading them to a Super Bowl this year if Carl hadn't made such a poor draft blunder?

You spend so much time admonishing us for criticizing what others do, saying we could do no better. Well I'm giving you the chance. What would you have done differently? What QB would you have taken the chance on? Its nice to say we should have drafted and developed a QB, but we can't just create one out of thin air. We had to draft one at our position, so which one that was available would you have taken?

i think they should have quit trying to win 10 games every year, winning no playoff games, and done a complete rebuild a long fucking time ago. they could have collapsed after marty, and built up around an eli. they could have really rebuilt with vermeil, and developed roethlisberger.

you are pointing out all the busts. i am pointing out that the following teams have rebuilt WITH a qb:
giants
chargers
eagles
bengals
colts
ravens
patriots, twice ( brady was luck we know )
titans ( they did go to playoffs with v. young, and previously mcnair. and v. young will be back )
vikings
packers ( rodgers is their guy now, and they are taking their lumps with him )
broncos ( almost won this year with cutler, did last year )

need me to go on? my point isnt that the chiefs couldve done better with drukenmiller or dave brown, or even byron leftwich, it is that they have brainwashed people like you into believing that in 25 years they never even attempted to do it. it is not about bonus points for developing your own guy max, it is about sustained success. these other teams have a shot each year. look at philly with mcnabb. they have won the division 3 times with him, the conference once. and made it as a wild card this season, the guy is still paying off. that is the difference between the manning boys, rivers, bledsoe, romo, the list is endless, and the fuckwad masking tape throw aways we have used ( deberg, green, bono ) none of them were the type you build around. the only exception was grbac, and does the fact that no team beyond the chiefs wanted him tell you something?

That was predictable. Chef loses argument - therefore KCMax knows nothing about football and has nothing to do with his pathetic excuse for a life than post on a stupid message board (unlike Chef and his uber-busy schedule that only allows for 50 posts in a day).

Answer one question - if the people evaluating talent determine that Matt Cassel has more tools and is willing to sign, should the Chiefs still draft a QB?

you are on a roll ws. and i lost nothing. as usual, max and ( soon, phu ) log in, ramble for hours, and think they are sportscenter anchors with their clever wit and endless time to search stats at their jobs.

if the powers that be in the nfl say cassell is the real deal, would i argue it? no, i guess not, it is similar to drafting a young guy.  but again, why are the chiefs the only nfl team that cannot develop their own talent? how many legitimate perinnial pro bowlers have we developed in 20 years now? at any fucking position? and not one year wonders like LJ.

[KCMax]

I didn't point out the busts, those were the QBs available when the Chiefs picked. Not an encouraging list. Saying the Chiefs should have drafted and developed Eli Manning is nice, but he simply wasn't an option for us (even if we had been able to draft him, he wanted to play in a big market)

Well I am all for the "we should have blown it up" a few years ago. I'd say around 2006 is when they should have done it. But that is what we're doing now and look at the uproar. Not surprising that so many teams are reluctant to do this.

I am not against drafting a QB per se. If the new GM thinks Sam Bradford is the best option available, so be it. But there are more downsides to drafting a QB than taking one through free agency. It takes longer to develop and it is much more of a crapshoot. While drafting a QB has higher upside, it is by no means the only way to win a championship. Four of the 12 playoff teams have free agent QBs. Many Super Bowls have been played with QBs not drafted by their teams. There is more than one way to skin a cat. That is my point. We don't NEED to draft a QB. We just need a GOOD QB.

[kcdcchef]

I didn't point out the busts, those were the QBs available when the Chiefs picked. Not an encouraging list. Saying the Chiefs should have drafted and developed Eli Manning is nice, but he simply wasn't an option for us (even if we had been able to draft him, he wanted to play in a big market)

Well I am all for the "we should have blown it up" a few years ago. I'd say around 2006 is when they should have done it. But that is what we're doing now and look at the uproar. Not surprising that so many teams are reluctant to do this.

I am not against drafting a QB per se. If the new GM thinks Sam Bradford is the best option available, so be it. But there are more downsides to drafting a QB than taking one through free agency. It takes longer to develop and it is much more of a crapshoot. While drafting a QB has higher upside, it is by no means the only way to win a championship. Four of the 12 playoff teams have free agent QBs. Many Super Bowls have been played with QBs not drafted by their teams. There is more than one way to skin a cat. That is my point. We don't NEED to draft a QB. We just need a GOOD QB.

no, eli manning wanted to play for a team that had a shot. he eliminated san diego, and no one else. he wanted the giants, sure, but he would have played for the chiefs, steelers, ravens, just not the chargers, back then.

the chiefs did not have a shot at roethlisberger, either manning, mcnabb, or many others, based on draft position. that position is based on winning 9-10 every season and flaming out. that is my point. we have never even attempted a rebuild until just now. and if we are really gonna do this, rebuild around a young unproven guy, and take your lumps. no one, NO ONE, saw flacco or ryan being the studs they were this year. no one. no one suggested either of them starting in 2008. NO ONE. why dont we do that? we tried with a guy that EVERYONE said would get hurt, he did. why not use a first round pick on a qb, like other teams do, develop the guy and become legitimate contenders every season.

[KCMax]

Why not just get a good QB? Why do we have to draft him?

[phuqueue]

you are on a roll ws. and i lost nothing. as usual, max and ( soon, phu ) log in, ramble for hours, and think they are sportscenter anchors with their clever wit and endless time to search stats at their jobs.

It's comforting to know that, even in threads where I haven't posted in months, I am never far from your mind, Chef.

[kcdcchef]

Why not just get a good QB? Why do we have to draft him?

peyton manning
eli manning
ben roethlisberger
john elway
joe montana
tom brady
troy aikman

see any sort of trend, or not really??? sure, dilfer and johnson snuck in there too, but if you look at the 42 champs, about 35 won it with their own guy. 35 out of 42. you really dont see a success rate there, max?

hey, if we can steal a guy from elsewhere that is that caliber, that can stay long term, great. but trent green was a bandaid. so was steve bono, joe montana, dave kreig, steve deberg, and elvis grbac. as was damon huard. brodie croyle was a hope, at best.

if we can get some 22-25 yr old stud without drafting them to lead us for a decade and change, win championships, shit, yeah, take it. who you gonna get? cassel, is a wild card, by the way. new england has a slightly better o line, running game, receivers, and d that can get off the field in a hurry at times. kc has none of that. you wanna build around cassel, fine. do it. whatever.

but i think it is a fucking embarassment that this franchise has yet to develop a qb in a quarter of a century.

[Beermo]

it really doesn't matter which QB the chiefs had/could get/drafted etc. they could of had peyton and eli and tom and big ben and they still wouldn't of won a playoff game because it's quite obvious that carl doesn't know how to pick winning coaches.

[WSPanic]

but if you look at the 42 champs, about 35 won it with their own guy.

Again - I'm on board with us drafting a QB if the new GM thinks that is the best way to go about it.

But 35 of 42?

Brady - Already noted he was not a stud draft pick in the 6th
Elway - Sat out a year rather than going with the organization that first drafted him - that seems like something that could happen here.
Favre - traded for
B Johnson - free agent
K Collins - free agent
T Dilfer - free agent
K Warner - free agent
Rypien - 6th rounder
Hostetler - 3rd round career back up
Young - USFL supplemental pick

That's about half of the last Super Bowl winners.

[KCMax]

Actually Steve Young was traded from the Buccaneers to the 49ers.

[kcdcchef]

Again - I'm on board with us drafting a QB if the new GM thinks that is the best way to go about it.

But 35 of 42?

Brady - Already noted he was not a stud draft pick in the 6th ( still developed by the team he won 3 super bowls for, so cancel him )
Elway - Sat out a year rather than going with the organization that first drafted him - that seems like something that could happen here. ( still developed by the team he won 2 super bowls for, so cancel him )
Favre - traded for  ( still won a superbowl and went to another and won one with a team that developed him )
B Johnson - free agent
K Collins - free agent  ( yet to win dick, btw, but he is a proven winner )
T Dilfer - free agent
K Warner - free agent
Rypien - 6th rounder  ( redskins stuck with him to win that super bowl, btw )
Hostetler - 3rd round career back up  ( yup, still got developed by the team he won a super bowl with, btw )
Young - USFL supplemental pick  ( yup, still won a super bowl in general, and led the 49ers to a decade of greatness )
That's about half of the last Super Bowl winners.

i see you left out.........

eli manning
peyton manning
ben roethlisberger
troy aikman
joe montana
phil simms
jim kelly

shit, you sure missed a few, on accident, i am sure.

[Beermo]

let's discuss who the new coach will be?