Election 2008

[phxcat]

Oh, is THIS how Obama got elected?

After reading through the actual poll, you have to wonder how much Zogby was bribed to do that!  First, it is meaningless without a similar comparison to McCain voters (although Obama voters would be more likely to point out that Obama did not claim to have campaigned in 57 states, and therefore would have been counted wrong).  The second, as that example shows, is that the questions were designed to catch Obama supporters being wrong.  Again, Obama did not claim to have campaigned in 57 states, the correct answer would be "none", Obama did not begin his career in the Ayers' living room, the correct answer is "none", the "see Russia from my house" comment is designed to catch people making the wrong answer (one word in an otherwise accurate statement compared to an outright falsehood such as the 57 states claim). 

[NDTeve]

That is the gayest song I've ever heard.

[AllThingsKC]

By the way, it's official - McCain won Missouri by less than 4,000 votes, making it the CLOSEST race of all 50 states.

[shinatoo]

After reading through the actual poll, you have to wonder how much Zogby was bribed to do that!  First, it is meaningless without a similar comparison to McCain voters (although Obama voters would be more likely to point out that Obama did not claim to have campaigned in 57 states, and therefore would have been counted wrong).  The second, as that example shows, is that the questions were designed to catch Obama supporters being wrong.  Again, Obama did not claim to have campaigned in 57 states, the correct answer would be "none", Obama did not begin his career in the Ayers' living room, the correct answer is "none", the "see Russia from my house" comment is designed to catch people making the wrong answer (one word in an otherwise accurate statement compared to an outright falsehood such as the 57 states claim). 

What that poll is screaming is that voters are ignorant and presidential elections are popularity contest. It's exactly why the founding fathers set up the electoral college and why we should return to it.

Seriously, uniformed people shouldn't vote. And trust me there are as many ignorant and misinformed voters on the McCain side, so don't think I'm being partisan.

And I agree with you about the 57 states/see Russia from my house to a point. The big differences being that Obama misphrased his 57 states comment and no right thinking person believes he really thinks there are 57 states. Sara Palin clearly state a fact about her state that was twisted by the media to make her look like an idiot, because most people are to ignorant to know that you can actually see Russia from Alaska. Furthermore if she had actuality said "I can see Russia from my HOUSE" it would have metaphorical like me saying that Kansas is "right in my back yard".

[KCMax]

By the way, it's official - McCain won Missouri by less than 4,000 votes, making it the CLOSEST race of all 50 states.

And the death of Missouri as a bellwether! You are red Missouri!

[DaveKCMO]

the star was wise to point out that the margin equals about one vote per precinct.

[ignatius]

And the death of Missouri as a bellwether! You are red Missouri!

Well not quite.  While McCain did get the electoral votes, he did not get more than 50% of the votes, so MO is not a red state technically.

[DaveKCMO]

Well not quite.  While McCain did get the electoral votes, he did not get more than 50% of the votes, so MO is not a red state technically.

i think most estimates put a true red state somewhere between 5-10% in the republican's favor. so yeah, less than 1% doesn't make missouri any more red than it was before. honestly, who cares about being a bellwether... it's the swing state status that keeps the money-a-flowin' and the candidates-a-visitin'.

[Maitre D]

Oh, is THIS how Obama got elected?

There is a tremendous amount of ignorance among the swing voters who picked Obama.  Just a fact, nothing to debate there.    I asked many times:  "Why is Senator McCain getting hurt by President Bush, but Senatar Obama skates from the Democratic Congress?"


Nobody has been able to answer my question, which is rather simple really.  So the best guess I have is, Obama voters didn't even KNOW that the Dems controlled Congress!


57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

[Beermo]

There is a tremendous amount of ignorance among the swing voters who picked Obama.   Just a fact, nothing to debate there.    I asked many times:  "Why is Senator McCain getting hurt by President Bush, but Senatar Obama skates from the Democratic Congress?"


Nobody has been able to answer my question, which is rather simple really.   So the best guess I have is, Obama voters didn't even KNOW that the Dems controlled Congress!


57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

why ask why?

bush hurts mccain because they both are in the same party and that makes them look like buddy's. bush has done a horrible job as our prez and it rubs off on mccain.

obama is unscathed so far because the dems really didn't care who won as long as it was a dem.

the dems have a edge over the repubs, but not a filibuster proof edge. also when the votes are close, you can't count on every member of your party to stand by you. although lieberman would oif sucked up to the dems or repubs depending on the what the vote is for and what he wants from you.

btw, i would of voted for you as prez and chef as v.p. if it would of gotten the repubs out. and what happens after you're sworn in is a matter that would of been considered after you had won.

[mean]

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

I think there is one key fact that makes it easy to believe there was a higher percentage of Obama voter ignorance, and that is that there was a large number of newly registered first time voters who probably never paid attention to politics in any way until shortly before the election. Many of them may not even be able to tell you the three branches of government, let alone who controls congress. That's hardly an excuse for blatant ignorance, but it shouldn't really be surprising. Fortunately, ignorance can be fixed.

[Beermo]

I think there is one key fact that makes it easy to believe there was a higher percentage of Obama voter ignorance, and that is that there was a large number of newly registered first time voters who probably never paid attention to politics in any way until shortly before the election. Many of them may not even be able to tell you the three branches of government, let alone who controls congress. That's hardly an excuse for blatant ignorance, but it shouldn't really be surprising. Fortunately, ignorance can be fixed.

true, but it is completely balanced by the ones on the other side. the whole country has gone to shit and they still voted for the guys who took us there.

so now they're even.

[phxcat]

And I agree with you about the 57 states/see Russia from my house to a point. The big differences being that Obama misphrased his 57 states comment and no right thinking person believes he really thinks there are 57 states. Sara Palin clearly state a fact about her state that was twisted by the media to make her look like an idiot, because most people are to ignorant to know that you can actually see Russia from Alaska. Furthermore if she had actuality said "I can see Russia from my HOUSE" it would have metaphorical like me saying that Kansas is "right in my back yard".

I'm not sure, if hearing the question, I wouldn't hear "I can see Russia from my house" and think "One can see Russia from Alaska", thus answering Palin.  When being interviewed, you would expect to be asked legitimate questions and that was a question that was designed to elicit an incorrect response.  There is no reasonable alternative to the  57 state question, however.  And the stated purpose of the poll was to find out how the media affected what people believed.  If that was the true goal, they would have asked everybody, not just Obama voters, and they would have asked a question such as, did Palin say  a) "I can see Russia from my house"  b) "you can see Russia from Alaska" etc.

And it is true that there is a huge amount of ignorance, and it is probably just as large on both sides, probably greater on the Obama side this year, merely because he got out the vote, but only because he got out the vote.  Had the Palinistas gotten out to vote in large numbers (Palin being someone else who was touted as a potential GOTV candidate) we would have seen larger amounts of ignorance on that side.  My point is that Zogby did a poll that was designed, not to measure what the poll supposedly designed to measure, but merely to make Obama voters look ignorant.

[mean]

I'm starting to think we would be better served by four viable major parties. The Democrats can remain socially and economically liberal, while Republicans can remain socially and economically conservative. We have Libertarians who tend to be socially liberal while economically conservative, so if we had a party that was economically liberal and socially conservative we might be a lot better off. Strangely, there is no party I can think of that combines economic liberalism with social conservatism; technically, you'd think that such a thing would draw a fair number of religious folks who can't abide things like same-sex marriage but who, at the same time, want to be represented by politicians that follow their interpretation of Jesus's teachings about the poor (e.g., "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor," --Matt 19:21, "For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them,"--Mark 14:7, "When you give a feast, invite the poor,"--Luke 14:13).

The point is, there are lots of people who don't want to vote for either the Democratic or Republican parties, because the parties tend toward liberal or conservative on both dominant overarching issues, while in fact the populace is much more diverse. As a Libertarian I tend to vote that way, but I realize there's not much point because Libertarians don't win here. If we could elevate two contrasting parties to the same level of "electability" as Democrats and Republicans, I think America might be better off.

[Maitre D]

I think there is one key fact that makes it easy to believe there was a higher percentage of Obama voter ignorance, and that is that there was a large number of newly registered first time voters who probably never paid attention to politics in any way until shortly before the election. Many of them may not even be able to tell you the three branches of government, let alone who controls congress. That's hardly an excuse for blatant ignorance, but it shouldn't really be surprising. Fortunately, ignorance can be fixed.

What's shocking about the Obama voters:  flipping a coin would result in 50% of people guessing right.  If they just flipped a coin, 50% of them would've gotten that question right.


But only 43% did.  That's just ignorant beyond belief.    What it really shows you is this:  the Presidency is now (in part) a popularity contest.    If you don't have an attractive candidate - like the GOP this year or the DNC in 2004 - you're in deep doo-doo with the Electorate.

[mean]

I don't necessarily think it's more of a popularity contest now that it has been in the past, and I don't really trust figures about how ignorant people are from a poll designed specifically to make people look ignorant.

[KCKev]

What do you expect from the youth of today with NO local funding of public schools?

The new administration should help! We will see after the Bush mess is cleared up, if it can be.

[Maitre D]

I don't necessarily think it's more of a popularity contest now that it has been in the past, and I don't really trust figures about how ignorant people are from a poll designed specifically to make people look ignorant.

Asking people who controls Congress, is "designed" to make people look ignorant?    Come on Mean.

[kcdcchef]

What's shocking about the Obama voters:  flipping a coin would result in 50% of people guessing right.   If they just flipped a coin, 50% of them would've gotten that question right.


But only 43% did.   That's just ignorant beyond belief.    What it really shows you is this:  the Presidency is now (in part) a popularity contest.    If you don't have an attractive candidate - like the GOP this year or the DNC in 2004 - you're in deep doo-doo with the Electorate.

how stupid are you? this had little if anything to do with the attractiveness of a candidate. and if you think kerry was a less attractive candidate than an illiterate crack smoking alcoholic who thrives on misery, you are crazy. they were both penises. the american people are disenfranchised with their leader. you see w's approval rating? combine that with an unpopular war, bleakest economy in 70 years, a candidate who stays in step with the president from that party, and a near total collapse of the economy 4 weeks from election day...............duh, anyone from the dnc would have walked away with it. ANYONE. fucking john edwards would have beat the hell out of mccain. walter mondale could have beaten the hell out of mccain.

[mean]

Asking people who controls Congress, is "designed" to make people look ignorant?    Come on Mean.

It's not just the question you ask, but also who you ask and why. The poll was designed to make people look ignorant. It succeeded.