mean and bahua suck

[Beermo]

Seriously?  Why the hell did we build that ballroom then?  Why did we expand Bartle?  Why did we build the entertainment district?  Walmart convention too big?  It's only 8,000 people!

KC is trying to put together a package that makes sense.  It's not like we have a million sq foot exhibit hall (thank god) as many others are building or have and we will never even remotely compete with the likes of Orlando, Vegas, Chicago etc anyway.  But as LenexatoKCMO says, we don't have enough hotels, nowhere near enough, for what we have now.  KC just wants to be a solid convention town that brings in our fair share of conventions and exposure.

I thought we were trying to create critical mass here.  The arena, the arts center, muni, the convention center and more residents and workers.  We need all of these components to hit on all cylinders for downtown to fully bounce back.

Nobody is trying to make KC compete with Orlando or even Indianapolis.  All they are tying to do is put together the best possible package we can in this town and adding more hotel rooms is a must.

Why do we always have to half ass everything.  Why can't we finish what we started or do it right in the first place.

Science City should have been the bomb and it bombed.  We didn't do it right the first time and won't try to fix it.  Sprint Center still sits without a tenant, 18th and Vine hasn't taken off as we can't get it over the hump, the museums should have been built at union station or something, the black community ignores the area anyway, we want to build our entire light rail system on city streets, we are afraid of building a world class airport terminal, there was no way in hell this town would have ever pulled off a downtown stadium, why have we not turned the Kemper/American Royal area into our western heritage themed agricenter? The list goes on and on.

OK, I'm on another rant.  The bottom line is I just don't understand why this town would spend hundreds of millions of dollars on downtown and not invest in some of the final projects that will do a lot to ensure we didn't just throw a billion dollars down the drain.

Have you guys seen the area around America's Center in Dallas?  There are hotels and condo towers going up all around it and that critical mass of development is starting to really create something.

How much of a 300 million dollar hotel would the city have to subsidize?  Do we even know that number yet?  Do you have any idea how much activity a hotel like that would bring downtown?  How about having a 24/7 vibrant block over I-670?  Talk about bridging the loop.  It’s hard for me to even put a price tag on what that would do for downtown.  There are so many intangible variables.  I work at crown center and the amount of activity the Hyatt and Westin create is phenomenal.  The same thing could happen on a larger scale with a new hotel and the Marriott downtown.

I just hope we can look back ten years from now and see more progress than a few metal plates being removed, a problem that was being aggressively addressed before Funkhouser ever took office.

it's hard to take a rabid, ranting city-nut seriously when they live in blue springs. it makes everything they say sound very hollow.

[mean]

investing in downtown is a waste of money ("throwing it down the drain")?

Grid's words, not mine. I'm just saying that we spent a billion bucks already. If we're throwing that down the drain by not spending another billion, then at what point are we no longer throwing money down the drain? One more billion? Two more? Five? Ten?

The point is that no matter how much we invest, there will always be something more we can do, and there will always be people saying that if we don't do it that we've wasted all our money and effort up to that point. We expanded Bartle, now we're being told we need to build a hotel or we wasted the money. But if we build a hotel, then we'll be told we need a new Bartle expansion or the money on the hotel was wasted. Then we'll need to expand the P&L or our money was wasted. Then we'll need trains or the money was wasted. Then we'll need condo towers or the money was wasted. Then we'll need to cap the loop or the money was wasted. Then we'll need a new hotel again or the money was wasted. Then we'll need to expand Bartle again or the money was wasted--got to keep up with the competition, after all. And by then we'll need to renovate Sprint Center or the money was wasted.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't do some or even all of these things. They need to be analyzed individually and decisions need to be made about them on their merits, which isn't what I'm doing here (there are other threads for that). What I'm saying is, in general this doesn't seem like a redevelopment model that will be sustainable over the long term.

This attitude represents the tragedy that is trying to take hold in KC.

First you plant a crop, then you refuse to fertilize it, because if it fails you'll be losing twice as much money.

With this view of the world, why do you even get out of bed in the morning?

I'm not quite that jaded. But if you plant the wrong crop in the wrong climate zone, in the wrong kind of soil, and you don't have and can't even afford the equipment to harvest whatever meager yield you get, no amount of fertilizer is going to help. Maybe you should reconsider whether you can compete with the other farmers growing that crop. Or maybe you shouldn't be a farmer at all. Or maybe it's a bad analogy.

[GRID]

it's hard to take a rabid, ranting city-nut seriously when they live in blue springs. it makes everything they say sound very hollow.

Yea, right.  Like it would change a damn thing if Ilived on the top floor of 909 Walnut.  It's a great scape goat though for those that don't agree with me.

[bahua]

It's not a scapegoat. You actually do have some good ideas, but since you're not even buying what you're selling, it's difficult to accept your words as authoritative.

[mean]

In some ways I perceive your incessant ranting to be kind of like having a passionate neighbor several houses down who likes to drop by uninvited all the time and complain that I'm wasting my money:

"I really like your house, and I really enjoy coming over to visit. In fact, I used to live in that very house when I was a kid! But, you know, we had to move down the block due to the dust mites. Kids are allergic. Anyway, it's still a great house but have you seen the houses in other neighborhoods? You really need to add a guest room, do some landscaping, and plant a garden. Maybe put up a fence. Replace those windows. I know a guy who does really good siding work cheap. Hey, how about you build a two-car garage? I know you only have one car, but maybe I can park in it sometimes? You know, if it snows or something..."

[GRID]

Not buying it.  I had just as much friction from people when I last lived in KCMO (only 5 years ago) and I spend a hell of lot more money in KCMO now than I ever did when I lived there.  You will never convince me that my opinion doesn’t count just because I don’t live in the city of KCMO.  I think 30 years of living in KCMO should count.  I work in KCMO, my wife is a KCMOSD teacher, we have royals season tickets, starlight season tickets, are friends of the zoo and union station.  The list goes on and on.

I am more of a Kansas Citian than most Kansas Citians that live in the city limits, the vast majority of them are as clueless as Joe Blow in Olathe or Lee’s Summit.

So find another reason to debate me.  My address isn’t one of them.

[GRID]

In some ways I perceive your incessant ranting to be kind of like having a passionate neighbor several houses down who likes to drop by uninvited all the time and complain that I'm wasting my money:

"I really like your house, and I really enjoy coming over to visit. In fact, I used to live in that very house when I was a kid! But, you know, we had to move down the block due to the dust mites. Kids are allergic. Anyway, it's still a great house but have you seen the houses in other neighborhoods? You really need to add a guest room, do some landscaping, and plant a garden. Maybe put up a fence. Replace those windows. I know a guy who does really good siding work cheap. Hey, how about you build a two-car garage? I know you only have one car, but maybe I can park in it sometimes? You know, if it snows or something..."

So you seriously think it makes all the difference in the world if my house was at 118th and North Oak or 118th and Holmes?

How does that change a thing?

[bahua]

You're deluding yourself if you think your address doesn't matter. I think it's wonderful that you choose to support as many things as you do in Kansas City, but you still don't live there, and that's the biggest, most noticable point, and your biggest obstacle to being seen as anything but a dog in the manger.

[mean]

So you seriously think it makes all the difference in the world if my house was at 118th and North Oak or 118th and Holmes?

How does that change a thing?

So you seriously think that the person down the block has a right to tell me what I should be doing to my house with my money? I mean, I appreciate the suggestions, but when he comes over and is like YOU ARE SO STUPID FOR NOT DOING IT THE WAY I SAID then I kind of get offended.

[loftguy]

Grid, keep writing.  There are a lot of people with open minds that gain from your observations.


Mean, any analogy sucks, because it means that the real argument is not being heard. You have a fixed vision and it's painfully apparent that there is no opportunity for constructive conversation.


Bahau, you're closing in on mean fast.

[mean]

Grid, keep writing.  There are a lot of people with open minds that gain from your observations.


Mean, any analogy sucks, because it means that the real argument is not being heard. You have a fixed vision and it's painfully apparent that there is no opportunity for constructive conversation.


Bahau, you're closing in on mean fast.

Apply analysis to yourself.

[loftguy]

Apply analysis to yourself.

I know myself too well to self analyze.  Can't trust the SOB.

[GRID]

You're deluding yourself if you think your address doesn't matter. I think it's wonderful that you choose to support as many things as you do in Kansas City, but you still don't live there, and that's the biggest, most noticable point, and your biggest obstacle to being seen as anything but a dog in the manger.

I get that and it's something I have to deal with.  But I'm still going to do what I think I can do to make KC a better place to live, work and play and if I moved back to KCMO tomorrow, that wouldn't change what I type on this forum one single bit.  I’ve already said we are moving back to KCMO, but I’m not going to advertise that as I honestly don’t think it matters in my posts.  People will have to find real reasons to debate me other than my address.

[mean]

I know myself too well to self analyze.  Can't trust the SOB.

Ha!

I'm just saying, it's totally unfair to try and characterize my side of the argument as being the only side with a firm, unalterable stance when it's obvious that the other side is equally convinced of their correctness.

[bahua]

Lfotgyu, I'm glad you can trust his words, but I cannot. I'm not speaking in metaphors with my criticism. I really, actually, in real life believe that someone that doesn't live in a place can't be as serious about it as they claim to be, and it takes away their credibility when they talk about what needs to be done there.

[KCKev]

Depends on what your doing in your house.. Dealing drugs to kids or anyone else.. Yes I have aright to say something. Trashing the area... Yes...

Drinking all night with your buddies and raising hell all night... Yes.

[mean]

Depends on what your doing in you house.. Dealing drugs to kids or anyone else.. Yes I have aright to say something. Trashing the area... Yes...

Drinking all night with your buddies and raising hell all night... Yes.

The analogy was about spending money on home improvement projects, but errr...interesting tangent. I guess.

[loftguy]

I've read a lot of the posts on the forum and my assessment of Grid is that he spends a lot of time being informed about the issues in Kansas City and he offers reasoned opinions.

I really don't get the argument that where he sleeps alters his validity.  I've got huge opinions and observations about cities that I know intimately and my opinions are almost always valued by the people who do live in those areas.  It just seems disingenuous of you to make this an issue. 

I don't live on the Plaza.  Do I need to curtail my thoughts about the place?

[mean]

I really don't get the argument that where he sleeps alters his validity.

Well, I was just saying his rants were obnoxious. 

[GRID]

Well, I consider that a pretty major insult bahau.  Not everybody is single and can just fly with the wind.  I have a wife and children and we have personal reasons that pretty much forced us to move east.  If you knew me at all, you would know that I do not like living in Blue Springs, but for the most part, I simply stay mute about that as I respect those that do choose to live there.

I think you are being awful close minded if you think that you have to “live there” to have a true passion about a place.

And where is “there”?  Your respect for the citizens of KCMO outside of downtown are about as low as the citizens of Blue Springs.

I hate to break it to you ,but who lives downtown?  Certainly not the people that do the most for this city.  I have total and complete respect for those that do live downtown, but it’s such a small portion of the city it’s hard to even calculate.  I would bet anything that the net economic activity of the residents of Grain Valley is higher than that of Downtown.

There are only so many people like me in this city and they are all over the city, the suburbs and the Kansas side.  So ridicule me as somebody that doesn’t matter because I don’t live in a downtown condo and drink at all the bars.

I can only imagine if I were filthy rich, how much of my money I would throw at KC.  But I’m not, so I have is forums and other means of telling my opinion.

But again, I don’t think it matters.  You wouldn’t agree with me anymore if I had a KCMO address and as far as I am concerned, I do.