Gun Control

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
kcdcchef
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 8804
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:48 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pennsylvania

Re: Gun Control

Post by kcdcchef »

Joemoney wrote: Highlander you have got to be joking.

If you outlaw handguns, you'll only be taking away guns from honest citizens.  YOU WILL NEVER get guns out of the hands of criminal.  NEVER NEVER NEVER.

So knowing that, honest citizens have NO CHOICE but to carry guns to protect them selves.
well, he has a point. he lives in a country where they are illegal to own, and they have a severely lower crime and murder rate, true or false joe?

you said nebraska finally outlawed the electric chair today?
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
Sussudio

Re: Gun Control

Post by Sussudio »

Yes, they banned the electric chair. But a lot of states have. It's more effective (and so called less painful) to use lethal injection. In MO we have lethal injection and the gas chamber. However, we don't use the gas chamber. We just haven't taken it off the books.
User avatar
Joemoney
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1006
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: Gun Control

Post by Joemoney »

kcdcchef wrote: well, he has a point. he lives in a country where they are illegal to own, and they have a severely lower crime and murder rate, true or false joe?
You cannot compare the two.  Two very different cultures and crime situations.  Less crime in Britain because of the people not because of the laws.
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
kcdcchef
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 8804
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:48 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pennsylvania

Re: Gun Control

Post by kcdcchef »

Joemoney wrote: You cannot compare the two.  Two very different cultures and crime situations.  Less crime in Britain because of the people not because of the laws.
how about japan? norway? sweeden?
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
User avatar
Sportster
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:23 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by Sportster »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beUQBXI22CA

Oh yeah, that'll work!!
Or I'll kill you with my sign!!!

Sportster
...see #3 above
User avatar
Joemoney
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1006
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: Gun Control

Post by Joemoney »

kcdcchef wrote: how about japan? norway? sweeden?
Same answer.  You think there are many dangerous people in Sweeden or Norway?  Any gangs or organized crime?  Not too many.

It's the people, not the laws.
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
Sussudio

Re: Gun Control

Post by Sussudio »

Joemoney wrote: Same answer.  You think there are many dangerous people in Sweeden or Norway?  Any gangs or organized crime?  Not too many.

It's the people, not the laws.
So is it safe to say Americans are bad people overall since our crime in higher overall?
kcdcchef
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 8804
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:48 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pennsylvania

Re: Gun Control

Post by kcdcchef »

Joemoney wrote: Same answer.  You think there are many dangerous people in Sweeden or Norway?  Any gangs or organized crime?  Not too many.

It's the people, not the laws.
so let me see if i understand this. almost every country in the world has a lower crime and murder rate than we do here in the good ole' us of a, and it is because we have more dangerous people, NOT because they have more strict gun laws. interesting.

we are basically one of the final countries in the world holding onto the death penalty, even though i support that, and i suppose in your mind, that is a deterrent, right??
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
KCKev
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1573
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Tucson Arizona
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by KCKev »

Sussudio wrote: So is it safe to say Americans are bad people overall since our crime in higher overall?
Yes it is safe to say that. If you put all guns in a pile, no one will get killed until a human comes along. Guns are not the problem, people are.. When you have nothing, then you have nothing to lose. We so called Americans  (or most of us)are a bunch of spoiled rotten brats that respect nothing.
If you're not on the EDGE, you're taking up TOO MUCH ROOM!
User avatar
Joemoney
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1006
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: Gun Control

Post by Joemoney »

kcdcchef wrote: so let me see if i understand this. almost every country in the world has a lower crime and murder rate than we do here in the good ole' us of a, and it is because we have more dangerous people, NOT because they have more strict gun laws. interesting.
Correct.  Blame the Rambo movies.
Last edited by Joemoney on Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
User avatar
Highlander
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 10210
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Gun Control

Post by Highlander »

KCKev wrote: When you have nothing, then you have nothing to lose. We so called Americans  (or most of us)are a bunch of spoiled rotten brats that respect nothing.
That's what the problem is, isn't it?  Why arm those with nothing to lose, you actually create a criminal where one did not exists before.  Ever think about killing someone with a knife?  Or even robbing someone with a knife?  It's pretty personal and the chances are that you'd end up the victim of your intended victim.  Killing someone with a gun is pretty easy though.  There is little personal risk and you don't have to feel the knife cutting through the vital organs or severing arterties of the victim.  The bullet does that for you in a very remote and non-personal fashion.  Even if somebody is armed, as the criminal you always have the element of surprise which in most cases renders the self defense purpose of having a gun as pretty worthless.  In fact, owners of guns are much more likely to kill a friend or family member than they are a criminal.  If you were to advertise the fact that you owned a gun, your house would probably be targeted by thieves bent on stealing them rather than avoided due to the risk.

Instead of preventing crime, guns create crime and criminals.  The road rage incident is much more likely to turn deadly because of the presence of hot tempers mixed with guns as is a altercation in a bar, a family fight and so forth.  A gun might embolden a person to hold up a liquor store where they otherwise would have been content to shoplift or even take on menial work. 

In any event, we lose 10,000 people a year to guns...that is the fact I am concerned with.  Many of those contributed to their own demise, many did not.  As a person who is intent on changing the status quo, I would think this issue would be first and foremost on your list of things to change....afterall, how can one be more surpressed or oppressed than by pre-mature death at the hands of another.

I do not think we are going to arm ourselves out of  this problem.  Personally, I don't shoot that well so I am against the OK Corral approach to controlling gun crime. 
Maitre D
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 14070
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: Sunny Johnson County

Re: Gun Control

Post by Maitre D »

Joemoney wrote: Same answer.  You think there are many dangerous people in Sweeden or Norway?  Any gangs or organized crime?  Not too many.

It's the people, not the laws.

It's no use, the gun grabbers will never ever understand this obvious point.

Most firearm deaths occur in the inner cities of the USA, and if that didn't happen, our gun violence would be on par with England. 
[img width=472 height=40]http://media.kansascity.com/images/champions_blue.gif[/img]

"For 15 years...KU won every time. There was no rivalry" - Frank Martin
kcdcchef
The Quiet Chair
The Quiet Chair
Posts: 8804
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:48 pm
Location: pittsburgh, pennsylvania

Re: Gun Control

Post by kcdcchef »

Maitre D wrote:
It's no use, the gun grabbers will never ever understand this obvious point.

Most firearm deaths occur in the inner cities of the USA, and if that didn't happen, our gun violence would be on par with England.   

so, england does not have big cities? interesting logic. all the countries that have signifigantly less gun violence then the usa have large metropolitan areas as well. and have much lower murder rates.
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
KCKev
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1573
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Tucson Arizona
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by KCKev »

They also have health care for everyone ect.which I would think takes away alot of stress on people reducing the hopelessness we have in our society.

Like I said, whose with nothing, have nothing to lose and will find a way to get what they need, usually taking it by force.
If you're not on the EDGE, you're taking up TOO MUCH ROOM!
drumatix
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by drumatix »

Highlander wrote:
Instead of preventing crime, guns create crime and criminals
Human will and intent MUST have at least something to do with this equation, right? Guns may not prevent crime, but they certainly don't create it by somehow willing their carriers to commit crimes!
User avatar
bahua
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 10926
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:39 pm
Location: Out of Town
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by bahua »

One thing that we have in the US that most other countries do not is great amounts of poverty amid unparalleled wealth. That breeds discontent. If other countries were as widely poor, and as universally wealthy as the United States, I don't doubt they'd have problems with armed peasants killing each other, guns being legal or not.

Instead, they mostly have to deal with organized terrorism. I'm not sure which I'd prefer, honestly.
User avatar
Highlander
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 10210
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Gun Control

Post by Highlander »

drumatix wrote: Human will and intent MUST have at least something to do with this equation, right? Guns may not prevent crime, but they certainly don't create it by somehow willing their carriers to commit crimes!
No but they do make it easier to commit a crime you otherwise would not have committed, not to mention the occasions where a minor altercation can spiral into something serious and deadly.  Such crimes need a human, no doubt, but the presence of the gun escalates it into something that is all to frequently fatal.  I really doubt that if I was destitute that I would rob a 7-11 with a knife but I might with a gun. 
User avatar
GuyInLenexa
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1012
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:10 am
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Gun Control

Post by GuyInLenexa »

I can't totally agree that poverty has such an impact on the creation of crime.  If that were so, why did the murder rate for the United States declined from 1930 and throughout the Great Depression.
True, there are pockets of poverty that have higher crime rates especially in the urban areas, but how can it be explained that the 399 mostly rural counties of Appalachia in the eastern United States has some of the worst poverty and school in the nation have some of the lower crime rates?

I believe that we have to have some sort of control of the purchasing of guns.  I think the VA Tech horror could have been avoided if the rules and regulations were processed correctly.

I fully support the right to bear arms.  Stopping people from buying guns will not keep them out of the hands of the criminals.
User avatar
Sportster
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:23 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by Sportster »

Highlander wrote: No but they do make it easier to commit a crime you otherwise would not have committed, not to mention the occasions where a minor altercation can spiral into something serious and deadly.  Such crimes need a human, no doubt, but the presence of the gun escalates it into something that is all to frequently fatal.  I really doubt that if I was destitute that I would rob a 7-11 with a knife but I might with a gun. 
You're right, guns are the problem.
Please come get all mine and melt them down. I'll then take a shower to wash their filthy ilk from my horrid, law breaking body and purge the gunpowder from my afflicted nostrils.  :roll: :roll:

Cars kill more people per annum than guns. I don't see anyone gettin their undies in a bunch and banning cars!

Sportster
...guns cause crime like pencils cause mispelled words
User avatar
Highlander
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 10210
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Gun Control

Post by Highlander »

Sportster wrote: You're right, guns are the problem.
Please come get all mine and melt them down. I'll then take a shower to wash their filthy ilk from my horrid, law breaking body and purge the gunpowder from my afflicted nostrils.  :roll: :roll:

Cars kill more people per annum than guns. I don't see anyone gettin their undies in a bunch and banning cars!

Sportster
...guns cause crime like pencils cause mispelled words
I am right.  Cars do serve a useful purpose, guns simply a destructive purpose. 
Last edited by Highlander on Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply