Will the IRS project be good/bad for downtown?

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:52 am

Although most of us were giddy with excitement at the prospect of the IRS moving thousands of jobs downtown, some discussion has arisen on if this project is really beneficial anyway. Some prospective problems...

1. Architecture and design in that location...

LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote:Are the heights of the 3 long buildings only 2 stories? Surely there must be renderings for this project if it's already breaking ground? How can they use 15 acres of prime land across the street from Crown Center/Union Station and build those huge, monolithic suburban-style 2 story structures? That is suburban sprawl in it's highest (LOWEST) form. Those buildings are the size of football fields each, why just 2 stories? No wonder they haven't released any renderings, this thing is a flatland! Does anyone else realize what I'm talking about? They are going to build 3 football field sized 2 story buildings in some of the most high-profile and prime land in all of downtown KC. I know it will bring a ton of jobs to the area but that tract of land is HUGE and some other incredible project could have went there. Someone tell me I'm wrong or please explain this better cuz I'm getting sick thinking about this sprawly project after learning it's only 2 stories tall and will cover 6 sq city blocks.

Could the IRS' prospective boxy design and plans be detrimental to its neighborhood?

2. Use as an IRS "factory"...
Another prospective problem may be the quality of work the IRS performs. If the work performed is some kind of cross between Office Space and a GM assembly plant, is that something we should bend over backwards to bring downtown? I don't think disgruntled IRS workers are included in the "creative class" that so many cities are trying to attract.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:37 pm

I fear it will be a surban-like development. It's an abomination that they tore down the Royal building. They should intermix with old buildings, not destroy. At least all parking will be underground.

I'd guess architectural-wise, it will be sub-par. But the addition of jobs/residents to that area will be a big plus.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:01 pm

I think we need to wait till we see the design. from the site plan that has been posted, it looks like it will be a very densely grouped set of buildings. DST has developed some good buildings in quality hill and other places. Its likely that these buildings will also blend into the neighborhood.

As for the work done there, lets be realistic: its the IRS! yes, it will be office work/assembly line processing of tax returns. But in that respect, they are no different than the blue cross folks or the Assurian office workers over by crown center.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:31 pm

I am using this as a reference, this may not be an accurate depiction.
There is about 15 acres of land back there, my concern is that this land could have supported nearly any corporation's world hdqtrs, even Sprint. They would have had to build much higher obviously. I'm wondering about this project now, if the structures are only 2 stories each. The IRS is basically using a ton of prime land. Hopefully the workers it brings will offset the sprawl. I do trust DST to make the buildings look esthetically pleasing on the outside, but why only 2 stories? why not 6? if they use long conveyor type tracks to scan millions of images, why can't they stack them up on top of each other using more floors? This would at least eliminate sprawl and allow for some residential to be built nearby. The 6 stories would look like D.C. and very federal.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:11 pm

Good point, LG. I wonder though, it the drawing is not similar to the original drawing for H&R Block. It may just be that they want 3 buildings. Perhaps it will be more than 2 stories as the design phase ramps up. I wonder: How much space to your need for 6,000 people? Plus all the paperwork associated with the IRS? I'm guessing a lot of square feet. I' like something taller than 2 story.

I'd love to see something similar in height to the post office building, or Anne's lofts. I am thinking maybe 4 story buildings, brick/industrial type, with good streetscape and such. I am sure that at least preliminary plans are already to go. Is there a reason why the plans arent' public yet? This and the Federal Reserve should have plans already. Is there a govt. related reason why they havent' posted the designs yet? I wouldn't think so, but hey, its the feds. You never know

paisstat · Post by **paisstat** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:51 pm

I fear that the idiots currently running our Federal Government will indeed do some damage here. They will propose putting the buildings several feet back from the streets for security reasons. Hail the fascists!!

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:04 pm

Since they are consolidating the IRS operations to several larger regional operations, this office will be high profile and well known. Of course it is going to be setback from the street, and of course it will have security features. Why is this a bad thing? If they don't have good security, then the feds will be bashed if something happened. If they put in good security, then they are fascists.

Paisstat, since you don't want the buildings set back from the street for security purposes, I'm anxious to see what types of security measures you'd put up to protect the workers at this facility. From your posts on other threads, you don't like blank walls and garages at street level. How do you propose to incorporate an open, active, street level design, and adequate security measures? All in a non-fascist way, of course.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:00 pm

This will be a very good project that is replacing what was once a horrifically underused area. Most of that land was old foundations that were either vacant or had been converted to parking lots for the few buildings that were there and post office employees. There was no "neighborhood". Annie's Lofts was the only thing that worth saving and they did.

IRS needs one large chunk of land with large setbacks that they can secure from the public. If this project did not go to Pershing & Broadway, it would have went to 435 & Holmes in a nearly identical foot print only the parking wouldn't be underground. There wouldn't have been these massive improvements to Union Station, the old Post office, the ped bridge and the renovation of the Dakota lofts, the construction of a garage for Union Station, the renovation of the vacant frieght house.

This is a 400 million dollar project that will transform a main entryway into downtown into something at least pleasing to the eye and to mention bring thousands on new workers to the area that probably don't even know where the old post office is.

You will not be able to drive into the IRS campus anyway.

Downtown has plenty of ped friendly urban projects under construction, there is not need to slam this project. I will be a good fit for the core, the site couldn't have fit another use any better.

It will be good for KC.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:16 am

there is not need to slam this project. I will be a good fit for the core, the site couldn't have fit another use any better.

I'll take this project, knowing of our inept City Gov't's inability to attract and develop. It may have taken 20-30 years before something else was built here, so I'm glad the IRS is coming. I disagree that this site couldn't have fit another use any better. If you drive through this area, you will see how monstrous it is and "what might have been." I don't think we're slamming the project, as much as we are concerned that the IRS will make poor, unnattractive and stupid decisions without thinking it through. Why is security the number one issue? Why have we become so fearful as a free nation? How can we let the terrorists win? I understand some reasonable security, who wouldn't? But why let a 'one-in-a-million possibility' be the primary dictation for a building's design that may stand for 100 years? This is sheer stupidity. This is supposed to be America, land of the free, home of the brave... obviously we are trading those lines in for, "Land of the one-driver car, home of those that have every-possible-security-in-place-for-a-one-in-a-million possible-terrorist-attack. If they are so concerned with safety, why don't they fix the roads and bridges, which put us far more at risk than some diaper-hat wearing zealot. Rethinking skyscraper height and gov't building design is one thing.... completely altering and ugly-fying (my word) every significant new Gov't building for the sake of these no-goods is ridiculous.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:10 am

LG, if you really feel that way, i suggest you take a trip to ground zero, or to the pentagon:

I have been to both places, and I can tell you that now I know what it really is like to be an American. Willing to risk your life every day to hold rights that many other people in the world don't have.
We don't want another 9/11 to happen. Of course, we are able to prevent others from happening now, we couldn't back then. (but that doesn't matter now)

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:35 am

Did you read LG's post Devin? He is right, the chance of something like this happening again is slim to none. Why sit over here and act scared? I'm not scared. Why don't we just build the IRS building underground to protect it 100%? Why not build it hidden so terrorists don't know where it is instead of building it in a downtown? The Pentagon was proof that a building doesn't have to be tall to be hit by a airplane, so why the stupid new rules?

JBinKC · Post by **JBinKC** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:44 pm

I get a bad feeling about these IRS offices too. I get the feeling that this complex is going to be very institutional and self contained. Go to work, park in the garage, which takes 10 minutes to get in and out of, then eat lunch at the cafeteria and go home. I picture this as big corrugated steel warehouse type buildings with the way they completely demolished that area. Does anyone know if there are any renderings yet??? Who's designing it...Butler? I want to be optimistic, but I really don't want them to mess this up. If it is built incorrectly, not only does it look out of place, but it doesn't accomplish its goal as an economic stimulus.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:57 pm

Well, it won't have alot of glass unless it's tinted so no one can see in, it also will probably resemble the post office building somewhat since they will be connected.
I haven't seen renderings, only a rough layout from a map the star did a while back for the penn valley park redevelopment.

Itll be good for downtown with the 6,000+ jobs coming.

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:04 pm

I think you have to look at the IRS consolidation as good, nomatter how it unfolds.

Whether or not it will be a turning point for downtown or just marginally good for the area is yet to be seen.

For the most part, the land currently being dug up was home to blighted surface lots and old crumbling foundations. To my knowledge, one really cool historic building was torn down, however, Annie's Lofts stayed and Dakota lofts (formally urban decay) is being renovated to be lofts across the street. As devin stated, the IRS consolidation will bring 6000 employees during "peak times" down to the IRS center daily!!

Even if most of the IRS people parrk, walk across the street and work, then go home...SOME of those people will start 1) considering living downtown (closer to work) 2) branching off and supporting neighboring developments.

The pedestrian bridge from the freighthouse district to Union Station will be great.

Also, the former Post Office was so underused. It is great that it will now be used to its full capactiy, preserving a magnificent builidng, and allowing the neighborhood to grow.

The blighted and non-used (except for the occasional bum who would break in for shelter) freight building next to Union Station will now be occupied. This will really fill in and put to use some formerly blighted/underused buildings! (very positive)

Even the parking structure under construction can't be critized in my opinion that much because it is being built on a formerr SURFACE lot, instead of on the locaiton of a former building at least. Density!

Overall, the project WILL BE good. Also, the influx of 6000+ people to this formerly underutilized part of downtown will help neighboring development, as outside investors will feel more confident investing in neighboring areas with such stability. A good example is the vacant restaurant space (never yet been filled) in the renovated builidng across from Union Station. My bet is something will go there once this project gets done. Penn Valey redevelopment? This project could help it's prospects as well. JoCo commuter rail? This could help that get support too.

Also, remember much of this money is federal--not from local Voters!

The project WILL BE good. I fail to see, even if it is the typical "govt. complex", it being construed as "bad." Many of the workers will be from JoCo. Who knows, maybe we'll see lots of them moving not only downtown but back to the urban core.

kcteen