Udris, Cordish and Collison on Up to Date last Wedsnesday. Here is the link to listen to the program in the archive:
http://www.kcur.org/asx/?showname=UTD&s ... +Listening
KCUR's Up to Date: Downtown development
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trailerkid
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KCUR's Up to Date: Downtown development
trailer...I just listened to it...should have made you feel better about what Cordish is planning to do.
If you don't want to listen to the whole thing, the only big interesting part is the interview with Blake Cordish...here are a few highlights that I caught.
-Unrbanistic - street facing
-Part of historic building
-100% real materials (brick, stone)
-Entertainment oriented, not retail...very different from plaza
-"living room" for city
-Some areas in 7 blocks will have clubs facing each other to create an area where you could walk between clubs WITH DRINK IN HAND.
that last part would be VERY NICE.
If you don't want to listen to the whole thing, the only big interesting part is the interview with Blake Cordish...here are a few highlights that I caught.
-Unrbanistic - street facing
-Part of historic building
-100% real materials (brick, stone)
-Entertainment oriented, not retail...very different from plaza
-"living room" for city
-Some areas in 7 blocks will have clubs facing each other to create an area where you could walk between clubs WITH DRINK IN HAND.
that last part would be VERY NICE.
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trailerkid
- City Center Square
- Posts: 11284
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:49 pm
KCUR's Up to Date: Downtown development
Rough transcript:
Kraske: "One the brink of major things, what needs to happen to make it complete?"
Udris: No one single project, variety of things. Midwesterners don't have a chance to live in a big city-- only Chicago. We have very cooperative property owners. Mayor's stance on housing a few years ago is key. Loft differentiate us from suburbs-- you can't find this type of housing elsewhere.
Kraske: I was amazed at builing conversion to lofts.
Collison: Downtown needs to increase the number of people living there, but also needs attractions to bring people back into downtown. No one is saying it is a silver bullet; it is a package of things. "Menu of activities"...city has really, really made some progress..."the most serious plans I've heard of in a generation."
Kraske: Is the reputation changing?
Collison: Still has a ways to go. People are excited, but still don't know the city isn't the dead, vacant place they think of when they go to Bartle Hall once a year. Groundbreakings help...people see it and feel it.
Udris: Reputation is there is nothing to do downtown. There are parts of downtown that are thriving...Crown Center. EDC is working on South Loop to change things. Stan Durwood had the right idea. EDC went back to original idea, but changed players. By 2006, people will be coming downtown saying things have turned around.
Kraske: What about Cordish?
Collison: Other cities say Cordish is expensive, but worth it.
Kraske: What about the arena component?
Udris: Not so much condition of Kemper, but location. There isn't a strong business base in the West Bottoms to help support the arena. Our facitily doesn't rate the same standards as other cities. Business of entertainment is important...not just structures. When you have an urban entertainment district filled with bars, restaurants and night clubs, the same people who frequent this area will be the ones who the arena will be selling tickets to. There is a synergy there where you bring all your customers to one place then they can sell off each other.
Kraske: KC too spread out for too long?
Udris: Other cities who are successful have public places downtown. Very few major cities have large suburban public places (living rooms). Football should stay where its at. What do we need to keep KC Royals here. We're lucky to have MLB. Other teams in our category are vying to keep their teams. Use downtown base as platform to sell tickets market our downtown with stadium (coporate interest in downtown stadium).
Kraske: Has the EDC taken a position on stadium downtown?
Udris: No, we have taken no position. The city is supportive of plan at Jackson County. Corporations stay and grow downtown because of excitement downtown.
Kraske: Your personal preference?
Udris: Good reason for baseball team for downtown facility.
Kraske: What is the status of baseball team's wishes?
Udris: I think they are saying they want to say where they are at. That's what they feel is in their best interests.
Kraske: What are your thoughts on arena and stadium (Collison)?
Collison: We did our downtown series, we visited other cities as peer communities. Denver and Mpls are our peer cities: If we invest lots of money we should do it downtown. Downtown development yields money for downtown for other cities. If it works there, why not do it here?
Kraske: People like Kauffman Stadium?
Udris: Other angles: where do people from out of town go? E. Jack? Any other attractions? NO! Downtown provides much better opportunity for people out of town: restaurants, bars, night clubs, concerts. Our market needs to reach out to other markets (omaha, des moine). Draw outside dollars to be spent in your community.
Kraske: Arena first priority?
Udris: Yes. We have major tenants that we need to keep: Big XII will not bring back final games when compared to other cities.
Kraske: People say if we don't do ballpark now, we will lock ourselves into 20 year lease in E. Jack.
Udris: Let voters decide. They buy tickets and spend money, they should be able to vote on Bistate issue. Policy-makers decide options before they have a chance. People wanted Power and Light district...we are doing it right now. The issue is can the team survive at that location? In Cleveland, it made a major difference to move 1 mile into the downtown area.
Kraske: What does new arena attract?
Collison: We are in jeopardy of losing NCAAs and Big XII. They bring in millions and millions of dollars. People spend a lot of money at these events. We are losing events to facilities with more amenities and larger size. People want an evening experience. West Bottoms is the wrong place.
Caller: How many cities need a new stadium?
Udris: Every city has built new stadium. Cincy had a younger stadium than Kauffman, drew 2.5 million people with new stadium.
Kreske: Break ground on KC LIve next Spring?
Cordish: Next nine months will be intensive planning, construction will start in early spring of 2005.
Kraske: Planning, what kind?
Cordish: architectural drawings... We are bringing in leading experts to design that specialize in downtown urban distircts in addition to including local consultants.
Kraske: What drew you to KC?
Cordish: We are urbanists by nature. We love downtowns. We come to cities in a transitional moments to bring a city to the next level in the entertainment realm. KC was fantastic opportunity. It needs a large entertainment area to act as a an anchor. Public sector partner that was sophisticated. 9 out of 10 people who approach them don't go forward because they don't make sense. We can't be an island to ourself. We need to compliment broader development. Tremendous amount of development around us in KC.
Kraske: What will it look like (compared to Plaza)?
Cordish: The design of any downtown district must be urbanistic-- streetfacing. No internalized or enclosed areas facing away from sidewalk. Walking the sidewalks and Experiencing the energy of a great downtown street. We also believe in KC, it must respond to historic buildings and stand the test of time. 100% real materials...steel, bricks, etc. No faux stand point you see in other developers. We have never sold our developments. We value architecture. Thoughfully done and tastefully done might be expensive, but last longer and appreciate. Experience is a "boulevard effect". There is not value to replicate existing areas or feelings. Plaza is well done-- there is no reason to replicate that. We are doing a different, but complimentary urban retail experience. Uses that aren't found in the present answer.
Kraske: Can KC support Wesport, Plaza and KC LIve?
Cordish: They're completely different, but yes, 1000%. Plaza is predominantly retail. Ours is entertainment area. We will help each other. We provide complimentary experiences.
Kraske: How big and where is this?
Collison: East of Bartle Hall. Surface parking and older buildings. Refered to in downtown series as "The Wound." 7 blocks between Grand and Baltimore.
Kraske: To Cordish..Outdoor plaza area where you can walk around with a beer and have a good time?
Cordish: Exactly, basically a living room for the area. You will see restaurants and bars face a plaza with a stage for live entertainment. Sense of place that is completely different from anything in the area. You can only do this in a downtown area. Vibe that you get intereraction of conventioneers, office workers, others in area.
Caller: I live in downtown, and the weakness is that there is no purpose for young people to live downtown. What about a university campus downtown? There is nothing that is genuine university with a wide array of courses. There is nothing down there full-time to bring young people there.
Kraske: There is talk of bringing UMKC Law school, what about that?
Udris: We felt having an extention of UMKC-- which is a hometown university, is very important. We don't view the UMKC law school as being very visible in the community. They aren't as active as other law schools-- they are isolated on campus. They have legitimate reasons to oppose the move downtown, but we can develop downtown as a constituency base to help fundraising for the law school. A Professor said we don't need bricks and mortar, but need more money to attract students and faculty. The bricks and mortar will be used as a platform to attract additional dollars. The law firms downtown would help the law school if it is located next to them. Having University students downtown is a big part.
Caller: Law school is a small community of students. There is a stack of architectural firms downtown. Add architectural, design students and law students to mingle and create a base of young people.
Caller: If I was a business owner, why would I come to KC? Schools, tax base, Union Station, and on and on?
Udris: Every city has issues. We have 15 school districts in KC, we are actively working to improve KC school district. They are out of the box ideas we are working on. Every major city has problems. To say KC is the worst? I was talking to municipal bond sellers and they commented on how nice Kansas City is. How many cities have a place like the Plaza? Has an area that is archetecturally and economically vibrant? New housing starts...
Kraske: But what about Union Station? Talk about boarding it up...
Udris: I can take to every single city that has a museum will say the same thing. It creates a unique group of people to make it operate. Original US business plan is not working so they need to come back with another business plan. The fact is people believe we should keep US opperational. EDC and DST are worked together to bring a major office complex near US...that's why the IRS complex happened. That alone will not solve the problem, they still have other issues.
Collison: 80,000-90,000 people working downtown, and 15,000 living downtown. Find that same concentration in the same sqaure milage.
Email: Arena is Wash. Square Park (crown center and help US)?
Collison: Community is pretty agreed upon arena at 14th and Grand. There has been a suggestion to put ballpark at Wash. Square Park. Arena is suggested for 14th and Grand because of KC Live.
Caller: Downtown is already reemerging with little stores. Streets are redone near library, pedestrian-friendly, bus stops on both sides. I watch the progress going on outside my window every day.
Collison: If you live in Library Lofts-- you are on cutting edge of what is going on downtown. Only a few years ago, 10th Street was empy...empty offices, closed B of A. All those buildings are renovated and are fully occupied. It is a complete turnaround and a wonderful example of a very successful strategy. Mayor deserves credit for it, as does Jeff. City and people who moved in to show this is a real market.
Caller: I am so excited about stadium downtown. I am from Cleveland and I saw the change in downtown area there. We used the downtown then. It was tremendously different. It could happen here too. We have only been to 2 games here in 8 years.
Kraske: What about Brewer's haven't been successful?
Collions: It's not in their downtown. It's probably the only large city to build new ballpark not downtown.
Kraske: What about wins and loses vs. the new park?
Udris: Indians is run by best business people. I think the synergy was there. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, etc.
Kreske: What if KC goes for new stadium and team is in the tank?
Udris: That is the case of Cincy. They still drew over 2 million people last year and weren't in the running.
Kraske: What about parking?
Udris: In Cleveland, we didn't build new parking. The office workers kept cars in parking garages and walked to ballpark. They did have mass transit. You didn't have to worry about driving after drinks at ballpark. It was cheaper than driving and paying for parking. There is plenty of parking in downtown KC. KC arena will not need new parking-- office workers will not be there.
Email: KC has 2 nice stadiums that already exist--great parking and highways. Is it fiscally responsible to talk about new arena and stadium?
Udris: It is fiscally irresponsible if we didn't look at investments we are making. What choices do we have? Is the city better off in the long run if we don't reinvest? I don't know a major city that is considered vibrant if the downtown area is not vibrant. For us to keep a MLB, we need to make sure they have the facilities.
Caller: I don't like sports, I like Folly, Lyric, and am looking forward to the new PAC. Basketball at Mun. Audi. creates traffic problems. We need to think of mass transit and there is not enough parking downtown. Aren't sports seasonal and will sit empty most of the year?
Collison: I couldn't agree more. We need better mass transit. BRT is coming and will be open in a year. You can take it from Waldo area. We are a car-dominated community.
Kraske: "One the brink of major things, what needs to happen to make it complete?"
Udris: No one single project, variety of things. Midwesterners don't have a chance to live in a big city-- only Chicago. We have very cooperative property owners. Mayor's stance on housing a few years ago is key. Loft differentiate us from suburbs-- you can't find this type of housing elsewhere.
Kraske: I was amazed at builing conversion to lofts.
Collison: Downtown needs to increase the number of people living there, but also needs attractions to bring people back into downtown. No one is saying it is a silver bullet; it is a package of things. "Menu of activities"...city has really, really made some progress..."the most serious plans I've heard of in a generation."
Kraske: Is the reputation changing?
Collison: Still has a ways to go. People are excited, but still don't know the city isn't the dead, vacant place they think of when they go to Bartle Hall once a year. Groundbreakings help...people see it and feel it.
Udris: Reputation is there is nothing to do downtown. There are parts of downtown that are thriving...Crown Center. EDC is working on South Loop to change things. Stan Durwood had the right idea. EDC went back to original idea, but changed players. By 2006, people will be coming downtown saying things have turned around.
Kraske: What about Cordish?
Collison: Other cities say Cordish is expensive, but worth it.
Kraske: What about the arena component?
Udris: Not so much condition of Kemper, but location. There isn't a strong business base in the West Bottoms to help support the arena. Our facitily doesn't rate the same standards as other cities. Business of entertainment is important...not just structures. When you have an urban entertainment district filled with bars, restaurants and night clubs, the same people who frequent this area will be the ones who the arena will be selling tickets to. There is a synergy there where you bring all your customers to one place then they can sell off each other.
Kraske: KC too spread out for too long?
Udris: Other cities who are successful have public places downtown. Very few major cities have large suburban public places (living rooms). Football should stay where its at. What do we need to keep KC Royals here. We're lucky to have MLB. Other teams in our category are vying to keep their teams. Use downtown base as platform to sell tickets market our downtown with stadium (coporate interest in downtown stadium).
Kraske: Has the EDC taken a position on stadium downtown?
Udris: No, we have taken no position. The city is supportive of plan at Jackson County. Corporations stay and grow downtown because of excitement downtown.
Kraske: Your personal preference?
Udris: Good reason for baseball team for downtown facility.
Kraske: What is the status of baseball team's wishes?
Udris: I think they are saying they want to say where they are at. That's what they feel is in their best interests.
Kraske: What are your thoughts on arena and stadium (Collison)?
Collison: We did our downtown series, we visited other cities as peer communities. Denver and Mpls are our peer cities: If we invest lots of money we should do it downtown. Downtown development yields money for downtown for other cities. If it works there, why not do it here?
Kraske: People like Kauffman Stadium?
Udris: Other angles: where do people from out of town go? E. Jack? Any other attractions? NO! Downtown provides much better opportunity for people out of town: restaurants, bars, night clubs, concerts. Our market needs to reach out to other markets (omaha, des moine). Draw outside dollars to be spent in your community.
Kraske: Arena first priority?
Udris: Yes. We have major tenants that we need to keep: Big XII will not bring back final games when compared to other cities.
Kraske: People say if we don't do ballpark now, we will lock ourselves into 20 year lease in E. Jack.
Udris: Let voters decide. They buy tickets and spend money, they should be able to vote on Bistate issue. Policy-makers decide options before they have a chance. People wanted Power and Light district...we are doing it right now. The issue is can the team survive at that location? In Cleveland, it made a major difference to move 1 mile into the downtown area.
Kraske: What does new arena attract?
Collison: We are in jeopardy of losing NCAAs and Big XII. They bring in millions and millions of dollars. People spend a lot of money at these events. We are losing events to facilities with more amenities and larger size. People want an evening experience. West Bottoms is the wrong place.
Caller: How many cities need a new stadium?
Udris: Every city has built new stadium. Cincy had a younger stadium than Kauffman, drew 2.5 million people with new stadium.
Kreske: Break ground on KC LIve next Spring?
Cordish: Next nine months will be intensive planning, construction will start in early spring of 2005.
Kraske: Planning, what kind?
Cordish: architectural drawings... We are bringing in leading experts to design that specialize in downtown urban distircts in addition to including local consultants.
Kraske: What drew you to KC?
Cordish: We are urbanists by nature. We love downtowns. We come to cities in a transitional moments to bring a city to the next level in the entertainment realm. KC was fantastic opportunity. It needs a large entertainment area to act as a an anchor. Public sector partner that was sophisticated. 9 out of 10 people who approach them don't go forward because they don't make sense. We can't be an island to ourself. We need to compliment broader development. Tremendous amount of development around us in KC.
Kraske: What will it look like (compared to Plaza)?
Cordish: The design of any downtown district must be urbanistic-- streetfacing. No internalized or enclosed areas facing away from sidewalk. Walking the sidewalks and Experiencing the energy of a great downtown street. We also believe in KC, it must respond to historic buildings and stand the test of time. 100% real materials...steel, bricks, etc. No faux stand point you see in other developers. We have never sold our developments. We value architecture. Thoughfully done and tastefully done might be expensive, but last longer and appreciate. Experience is a "boulevard effect". There is not value to replicate existing areas or feelings. Plaza is well done-- there is no reason to replicate that. We are doing a different, but complimentary urban retail experience. Uses that aren't found in the present answer.
Kraske: Can KC support Wesport, Plaza and KC LIve?
Cordish: They're completely different, but yes, 1000%. Plaza is predominantly retail. Ours is entertainment area. We will help each other. We provide complimentary experiences.
Kraske: How big and where is this?
Collison: East of Bartle Hall. Surface parking and older buildings. Refered to in downtown series as "The Wound." 7 blocks between Grand and Baltimore.
Kraske: To Cordish..Outdoor plaza area where you can walk around with a beer and have a good time?
Cordish: Exactly, basically a living room for the area. You will see restaurants and bars face a plaza with a stage for live entertainment. Sense of place that is completely different from anything in the area. You can only do this in a downtown area. Vibe that you get intereraction of conventioneers, office workers, others in area.
Caller: I live in downtown, and the weakness is that there is no purpose for young people to live downtown. What about a university campus downtown? There is nothing that is genuine university with a wide array of courses. There is nothing down there full-time to bring young people there.
Kraske: There is talk of bringing UMKC Law school, what about that?
Udris: We felt having an extention of UMKC-- which is a hometown university, is very important. We don't view the UMKC law school as being very visible in the community. They aren't as active as other law schools-- they are isolated on campus. They have legitimate reasons to oppose the move downtown, but we can develop downtown as a constituency base to help fundraising for the law school. A Professor said we don't need bricks and mortar, but need more money to attract students and faculty. The bricks and mortar will be used as a platform to attract additional dollars. The law firms downtown would help the law school if it is located next to them. Having University students downtown is a big part.
Caller: Law school is a small community of students. There is a stack of architectural firms downtown. Add architectural, design students and law students to mingle and create a base of young people.
Caller: If I was a business owner, why would I come to KC? Schools, tax base, Union Station, and on and on?
Udris: Every city has issues. We have 15 school districts in KC, we are actively working to improve KC school district. They are out of the box ideas we are working on. Every major city has problems. To say KC is the worst? I was talking to municipal bond sellers and they commented on how nice Kansas City is. How many cities have a place like the Plaza? Has an area that is archetecturally and economically vibrant? New housing starts...
Kraske: But what about Union Station? Talk about boarding it up...
Udris: I can take to every single city that has a museum will say the same thing. It creates a unique group of people to make it operate. Original US business plan is not working so they need to come back with another business plan. The fact is people believe we should keep US opperational. EDC and DST are worked together to bring a major office complex near US...that's why the IRS complex happened. That alone will not solve the problem, they still have other issues.
Collison: 80,000-90,000 people working downtown, and 15,000 living downtown. Find that same concentration in the same sqaure milage.
Email: Arena is Wash. Square Park (crown center and help US)?
Collison: Community is pretty agreed upon arena at 14th and Grand. There has been a suggestion to put ballpark at Wash. Square Park. Arena is suggested for 14th and Grand because of KC Live.
Caller: Downtown is already reemerging with little stores. Streets are redone near library, pedestrian-friendly, bus stops on both sides. I watch the progress going on outside my window every day.
Collison: If you live in Library Lofts-- you are on cutting edge of what is going on downtown. Only a few years ago, 10th Street was empy...empty offices, closed B of A. All those buildings are renovated and are fully occupied. It is a complete turnaround and a wonderful example of a very successful strategy. Mayor deserves credit for it, as does Jeff. City and people who moved in to show this is a real market.
Caller: I am so excited about stadium downtown. I am from Cleveland and I saw the change in downtown area there. We used the downtown then. It was tremendously different. It could happen here too. We have only been to 2 games here in 8 years.
Kraske: What about Brewer's haven't been successful?
Collions: It's not in their downtown. It's probably the only large city to build new ballpark not downtown.
Kraske: What about wins and loses vs. the new park?
Udris: Indians is run by best business people. I think the synergy was there. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, etc.
Kreske: What if KC goes for new stadium and team is in the tank?
Udris: That is the case of Cincy. They still drew over 2 million people last year and weren't in the running.
Kraske: What about parking?
Udris: In Cleveland, we didn't build new parking. The office workers kept cars in parking garages and walked to ballpark. They did have mass transit. You didn't have to worry about driving after drinks at ballpark. It was cheaper than driving and paying for parking. There is plenty of parking in downtown KC. KC arena will not need new parking-- office workers will not be there.
Email: KC has 2 nice stadiums that already exist--great parking and highways. Is it fiscally responsible to talk about new arena and stadium?
Udris: It is fiscally irresponsible if we didn't look at investments we are making. What choices do we have? Is the city better off in the long run if we don't reinvest? I don't know a major city that is considered vibrant if the downtown area is not vibrant. For us to keep a MLB, we need to make sure they have the facilities.
Caller: I don't like sports, I like Folly, Lyric, and am looking forward to the new PAC. Basketball at Mun. Audi. creates traffic problems. We need to think of mass transit and there is not enough parking downtown. Aren't sports seasonal and will sit empty most of the year?
Collison: I couldn't agree more. We need better mass transit. BRT is coming and will be open in a year. You can take it from Waldo area. We are a car-dominated community.
Last edited by trailerkid on Fri May 07, 2004 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KCPowercat
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KCUR's Up to Date: Downtown development
are you a court recorder in your spare time??? 
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trailerkid
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KCUR's Up to Date: Downtown development
I just wanted to get this stuff recorded because it give so much insight into what us develop fiends talk and think about everyday. Yeah, I felt like I should be using shorthand. 
The things I liked the most were hearing from Cordish and Udris. I am actually becoming a little impressed with both of them. Udris' idea about grouping the arena and entertainment district together makes perfect sense. It is the same demos that are attracted by both (nightlife and concerts/sports) so creating a synergy would make it like an entertainment shopping center-- whatever entertainment/nightlife you want-- it's found here. I also was interested in the fact that Udris is basically saying KC Live is a resurrection of the P&L District only with people who can get it accomplished and off the ground.
I am changing a bit of my tune with Cordish. I like the fact that they Cordish says they are building stuff to last with real materials. It is a good sign when he is dissing the mall developers who build stuff to look real, but is completely fake. He sounds very much like an urban advocate. I just want our design to be for a big city, not whatever they are doing in Richmond, Va. I am still hesitant as what exactly will be down there. I guess it's just that we don't have anything like it (something he mentioned a lot--it's uniqueness in the metro) it's hard to compare it to something. Really, there is/won't be anything like it in StL, Mpls, Omaha or Des Moines. I wish they would've asked Cordish about housing and offices within KC Live.
The things I liked the most were hearing from Cordish and Udris. I am actually becoming a little impressed with both of them. Udris' idea about grouping the arena and entertainment district together makes perfect sense. It is the same demos that are attracted by both (nightlife and concerts/sports) so creating a synergy would make it like an entertainment shopping center-- whatever entertainment/nightlife you want-- it's found here. I also was interested in the fact that Udris is basically saying KC Live is a resurrection of the P&L District only with people who can get it accomplished and off the ground.
I am changing a bit of my tune with Cordish. I like the fact that they Cordish says they are building stuff to last with real materials. It is a good sign when he is dissing the mall developers who build stuff to look real, but is completely fake. He sounds very much like an urban advocate. I just want our design to be for a big city, not whatever they are doing in Richmond, Va. I am still hesitant as what exactly will be down there. I guess it's just that we don't have anything like it (something he mentioned a lot--it's uniqueness in the metro) it's hard to compare it to something. Really, there is/won't be anything like it in StL, Mpls, Omaha or Des Moines. I wish they would've asked Cordish about housing and offices within KC Live.