Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
Post Reply
User avatar
AlbertHammond
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:52 am

Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by AlbertHammond »

Here is the map of the street trees planned for downtown.  I find this to be a very odd selection and I wanted to get the opinion of those of you out there that are tree experts.  Why so many Maples?  Why so many Ash?  What is up with all those Ginkgos???


Image

The big document can be found here:  http://www.kcmo.org/planning/downtown/s ... ements.pdf

Here are my 2 cents....
Ash:  I assume we have 3 cultivars of green ash to promote diversity.....but that really wont work when an evil bug or disease comes to kill them.  With all the talk about the emerald ash borer (EAB) destroying hundreds of acres in Michigan, why would this ever be considered a good choice?  True, the EAB might never get here, but if it does, what a mistake we made to plant so many ash as street trees.  At least Cimmaron & Urbanite are better selections than they could have used.  What were they thinking?

Elm:  Dynasty and Allee are Lacebark Elms and are decent trees.  They take the urban conditions and grow fast.  They also fall apart in ice storms.  I will let this slide as a decent choice.  I will never understand why anyone uses Dynasty.  It has no sign of interest in the bark, so why use it, when they could select a cultivar that is just as tough and DOES have the interesting exfoliating bark?  Why not make one of the choices a new hybrid Elm that is disease resistant like Frontier, Emerald Sunshine, Accolade or Triumph?

Ginkgo:  Fine.  Everybody seems to love this tree.  Sure, it is tolerant of the pollution.  Sure, it has an interesting leaf.  Sure, it has a light, dappled shade that lets the sun shine through.  But why is the ENTIRE P&L district planted in it?  They probably want to unify the district with one tree, but I gotta say, there are better choices.  It is SLOW growing.  I have yet to find one planted as a street tree in urban conditions that looks decent.  If you lightly nick the dark, it tears off and scars it bad.  Sure, they are surviving on 39th Street, but show me one of them that looks nice enough that you would pay to have it moved to your front yard.  No thanks.  Use it some, but this is too much!

Honeylocust:  I got no beef with Honeylocust.  It is native and is tough.  Sometimes it struggles to establish, but hopefully there is a 1 year warranty on them (not that the city staff would back-punch in a year to see if it was dead!).  I like the small leaflets that keep clutter to a minimum when they fall.  Skyline was selected and it was a good choice.  It tends to be wide and grows into buildings and into truck travel zones.  I am ok with this pick.

Columnar Hornbeam:  Stupid choice.  These things burn up in the summer heat.  Add urban stress to it and these will in trouble.  Plus, they branch so low and will get pretty darn wide with age, if they survive.

Linden:  Glenleven and Greenspire are both littleleaf linden types.  Why not make one of them a large leaf 'americana' type?  An even better choice would be a Silver Linden.  Their choices are decent, but there are linden species that are much better than 'cordata'.  Oh well?

Red Maple:  I just puked in my mouth.  All 3 cultivars are Acer rubra.  If you can show me a beautiful Red Maple in Kansas City that is used as a street tree in an urban environment, then post the address of it here.  It doesn't exist!  This tree belongs in a yard with good soil and no urban heat.  I have heard Richard Coleman say he wants to see more red maples "because they're pretty".  Well folks, if you've driven by his house, you know he is aesthetically challenged.  Abort all maples as urban street trees in KC!  Especially Red Maple!  (Nursery guys love them because they transplant well and survive past the 1-year warranty.  They slowly die and no one seems to pay attention).

Red Oak:  Good tree once established.  The nursery guys hate them because they don't transplant well.  So what!  Oaks are one tree that will grow well in the urban environment once established.  In every case, a red,bur,white,shumardii,scarlet,etc oak will outgrow a red maple when used in tough conditions like urban areas or clay soils.  If you don't believe me, then you have not been paying attention.  Why is there only one street with Red Oak? (Oak Street, of course)    I think more streets should have been planted in a variety of oak species.  In 20 years, the results would have been dramatic!

Shingle Oak:  I like Shingle Oak, but it is not well suited as a street tree for one reason only: it holds all it's leaves through winter.  Most oaks drop most leaves early in the fall and this is important to get the sun down to the ground and melt the snow and ice.  Sixth street was the only street shown to have Shingle Oak.

Now, I want to read your replies....
Last edited by AlbertHammond on Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
anniewarbucks
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:39 pm
Location: Topeka, Kansas 66605
Contact:

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by anniewarbucks »

They will look nice when they are all grown and bushed out over these streets. Kind of bringing the suburbs to downtown.
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this contaminant- free message.
However, a significant number of electrons have been inconvenienced.
User avatar
schugg
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3279
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:02 am
Location: kcmo
Contact:

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by schugg »

wow Albert Hammond. if what you say is true about some of these trees quite possibly having a hard time surviving due to some urban heat, pollution, and accidents, then why are we even fooling with these? who the hell is in charge of planting these? I just hope we get lucky and all of our trees downtown survive!
User avatar
ShowMeKC
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2260
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 12:57 pm

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by ShowMeKC »

awb it isn't bringing the suburbs to the city... It is just improving the existing urban area. Developed urban areas have had trees on the streets and in the backyards of buildings for a long time (even before suburbs in terms of 1950-1990). It's just some cities haven't gotten to that point yet.
omenapt
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:04 am

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by omenapt »

Couldnt agree more on the Maples,, the red varieties look good for maybe three weeks in the fall, but the rest of the time,..WEEDS!

I actually like the Elm varieties, esp. the Allee,..  There are some at 75th and Ward Parkway and I have grown very fond of their bark and fast growth rate and believe it or not,  have an interesting fall coloring, which is rare for ELms!
Ash trees bore me (no pun intended), but the Patmores along the SW trafficway around Westport  please me very much and, boy, did they recover very well from that terrible hard freeze last spring!

I am a fan of London Plane trees, seeless cultivars of the Sycamore...they are everywhere in NYC and European cities,,dont know why they arent used?

Oh, and the Lindens are the worst choice!!,,,they develope suckers , trunk rot, and never look good here in KC! THe Redmond or other big leafed varietes always look good and for the life of me cant understand the use of the little leaf varieties in ANY application!

And not a  big fan of the shingle oak either!

Speaking of street trees , anyone noticed the huge loss this summer of the hundreds planted along Ward Parkway?? NOt a well managed project!  I dont know if the watering got away from them or what.. Sometimes, theses trees arrive balled up in some hard clay , not of this region ,and once that dries out, unless you puncture the root ball with some sort of probe, the watering just runs off the root ball and into the soil next to it,,.I had some Rhododendrons and Dogwoods with similar fate,but once punctured , they pulled thru beautifully!
User avatar
AlbertHammond
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:52 am

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by AlbertHammond »

Those are good comments, omenapt.  So a question to whoever reads this and knows their trees well:

List the 10 tree species/cultivars that should be used as street trees in downtown.
User avatar
dangerboy
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9029
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:28 am
Location: West 39th St. - KCMO

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by dangerboy »

AlbertHammond wrote: Those are good comments, omenapt.  So a question to whoever reads this and knows their trees well:

List the 10 tree species/cultivars that should be used as street trees in downtown.
No need to shout.
User avatar
AlbertHammond
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:52 am

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by AlbertHammond »

(My) Preferred list of 10 street trees for Downtown:

Zelkova: What a great street tree, yet is not even on the KCMO "approved" list.  Actually, most of my preferred trees are not on the "list".
Red Oak/Shumardii Oak:  These are both great trees that do great once established.
Bald Cypress/Dawn Redwood:  A different look that would be interesting on one of the streets.  These trees take drought (and wetness) like a champ.
Ginkgo:  I would use it, but in limited numbers.  Be ready for a few stinky female trees to accidentally get planted.
Lacebark Elm:  I would select Allee for it's bark character
Hybrid Elms: Many exist, a few good ones are: Emerald Sunshine, Triumph, Commendation & Accolade.  Pick one and go with it.
Bur Oak: What a beast!  It will be slow, but will tolerate the difficult conditions.  It can be grown as an urban street tree despite what you might think.  Many other Oak species could be added to this list.
Honeylocust:  A good tree that should be used.  Shademaster or Skyline are fine cultivars.
Hardy Rubber Tree:  Eucommia deserves more use in urban environments, so I list it here.
Kentucky Coffeetree:  Variety 'Expresso' is seedless.  This thing is tough!

If you must throw in a Red Maple (not recommended!), at least make it a freemanii type like Autumn Blaze.  Not my favorite tree, but at least it has a chance to survive in the 'tree coffin' (planting pit) provided to it in the downtown streetscape.

If they need a small tree under powerlines, go with: Shantung Maple, State Street Maple, Russian Hawthorn or maybe a good crabapple cultivar.

If they need a columnar, use Musashino Zelkova, Regal Prince Oak or maybe Princeton Sentry Ginkgo or Shawnee Brave Bald Cypress.

This list looks nothing like the miserable list of recommended street trees put out by the KCMO Parks and Rec Dept.  They have River Birch, Redbud and Purpleleaf Plum on the short list of preferred street trees!  Did the garden center manager from Walmart come up with this list?  Here is the official list for the City of KCMO:

Image
Last edited by AlbertHammond on Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
omenapt
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:04 am

Re: Street Tree Plan for Downtown

Post by omenapt »

Parks and Rec is retarded..I have seen them in action!  Things were som much better under Anita Gorman.. Ho Hum  !!!

SO,  decided to see things for myself at P/L district...I must say  i am impressed with the plantings..It will work ..all irrigated with drip hoses in each "pit" which are large size and mulched in..The whole approach is FAR different from any street tree planting programs I have seen in this city..Basically the old approach was "stick it  in a 2foot square clay pit and pray for rain!!

there are some excellent Zelkovas in Westport and of course the beautiful Cypresses out here on south Ward Parkway.
THe city "forrester " must just go thru catalogues and just start picking things out and must not be from here, because SUgar Maples should not be used in any situation due to excess heat and repeated droughts. But he must "have the degree" so who would question or be allowed to!
Post Reply