OFFICIAL: Power & Light District

[loftguy]

Do we really need a "fudge theater" when we already have Tootsie's?

[kcdcchef]

Yeah, probably.  I don't care about those, though.  I care about the others that will (hopefully) open up off the District...places like Al Dente, Grinders, Habitat, etc.

his point was, as was kcp's and cityliving, and mine too, was no matter what has been coming down the pipes there has been bitching, moaning, and who cares, not good enough. with every tenant and even speculated tenant.

sure, it is not a cartwheel turining event to hear about a dry cleaner, but these things are coming that are needed because of the development. so to say, yeah, who cares, lees summit type stuff, means you dont want a functional core that provides basic services. smart.

[KCMax]

These tenants do not surprise me one whit. This is Cordish, building a development for the masses. Your unique local businesses are going to be in the wake of P&L.

[KCTigerFan]

The more I hear about P&L the less I think it will be another VW or any other retail destination in KC.  
My guess is that the Midland and some other high profile places will not be HoB or other chain names but rather new concepts that are unique.    Remember that Cordish has an entire division that creates unique nightclubs and restaurants.  Realistically, that will make the District much cooler than having a HRC.  Now an ESPN Zone would still be great to have with the SC next door!  
 

[KC-wildcat]

...no matter what has been coming down the pipes there has been bitching, moaning, and who cares, not good enough. with every tenant and even speculated tenant.

sure, it is not a cartwheel turining event to hear about a dry cleaner, but these things are coming that are needed because of the development. so to say, yeah, who cares, lees summit type stuff, means you dont want a functional core that provides basic services. smart.

I agree.  But, at the same time, P&L is an "entertainment" district.  It was advertised as such.  I mean, having GNCs, CVSs, Dry-Cleaners, etc. are all absolutely necessary for DT to grow and ultimately thrive.  However, as we all know, there is plenty of vacant street level retail space throughout this city.  I think I would rather see the aformentioned less "entertaining" tenants take up roots in these spaces than in the center of the P&L.  See, Jimmy John's, Quizno's, CVS, Starbucks, Jason's Deli, Scooter's, etc.  They're all necessities.  They just non't necessarily need to be in the middle of the P&L. 

That being said, I do agree with the general sentiment that too many people on this board are defeatist pessimists in regard to tenant announcements and the outlook of the P&L as a whole.  It's just not constructive IMO. 

[QueSi2Opie]

I mean, having GNCs, CVSs, Dry-Cleaners, etc. are all absolutely necessary for DT to grow and ultimately thrive.  However, as we all know, there is plenty of vacant street level retail space throughout this city.

I agree.  I can look out my window and point to a couple of vacant spots between Azul's Latin Bistro and Check & Go on Grand Blvd (of the Americas). The GNC would've been jus' fine located across the street from Perk Up! Coffee, Ice Cream & Cookies, and only a block and a half from the P&L.

[CityLiving]

I agree.  I can look out my window and point to a couple of vacant spots between Azul's Latin Bistro and Check & Go on Grand Blvd (of the Americas). The GNC would've been jus' fine located across the street from Perk Up! Coffee, Ice Cream & Cookies, and only a block and a half from the P&L.

If Cordish hopes to create residential properties in the district one day, he'll need to continue his willingness to lease out space to everyday retail locations such as the recent announcements just made within the area he controls.  The grocery store and large bookstore (not officially announced, but I think expected?) will be major drivers to attracting residents. If it were all bars/entertainment locations with no everyday retail in the entire district, it would be difficult to market to residents.  When a new grocery store (Whole Foods) went into a central neighborhood in Washington DC (Dupont Circle) the entire block across the street was transformed into condo developments.  Every one of those condo develops prominently featured the Whole Foods and other everyday retail locations in their sales materials.  And it worked!

[kcdcchef]

If Cordish hopes to create residential properties in the district one day, he'll need to continue his willingness to lease out space to everyday retail locations such as the recent announcements just made within the area he controls.  The grocery store and large bookstore (not officially announced, but I think expected?) will be major drivers to attracting residents. If it were all bars/entertainment locations with no everyday retail in the entire district, it would be difficult to market to residents.  When a new grocery store (Whole Foods) went into a central neighborhood in Washington DC (Dupont Circle) the entire block across the street was transformed into condo developments.  Every one of those condo develops prominently featured the Whole Foods and other everyday retail locations in their sales materials.  And it worked!

but that is not feasible in kansas city. what works in a dumb stupid hick town like washington d.c. will not work for the highly amazing and sophisticated kansas city. every parcel of this new amazing district, that will include thousands of residents, has to be occupied by hip nouvelle retail and dining.

welcome to urban utopia, kansas city, missouri.

[WoodDraw]

but that is not feasible in kansas city. what works in a dumb stupid hick town like washington d.c. will not work for the highly amazing and sophisticated kansas city. every parcel of this new amazing district, that will include thousands of residents, has to be occupied by hip nouvelle retail and dining.

welcome to urban utopia, kansas city, missouri.

I'm not sure why you're being so defensive.  Cordish was given a good amount of money and land by the city.  It's not unreasonable to have expectations of some standard in the district.  I've defended their past announcements, but a nail salon, GNC, and dry cleaners push me towards the extent of my good will with them.  I can go to a strip mall in Raytown and find those three things.  They belong downtown, but not in the P&L District.

[kcdcchef]

I'm not sure why you're being so defensive.  Cordish was given a good amount of money and land by the city.  It's not unreasonable to have expectations of some standard in the district.  I've defended their past announcements, but a nail salon, GNC, and dry cleaners push me towards the extent of my good will with them.  I can go to a strip mall in Raytown and find those three things.  They belong downtown, but not in the P&L District.

i am being defensive because of this statement. this district will have thousands of residents ultimately, and they will want, expect, and deserve basic services, not just makers mark and hard rock, within a reasonable to them walk. we can all sit here and defend how long reasonable is and is not, and how kc is obsessed with parking, but reality is the residents that live there will dictate what is reasonable. and in most cities, people want basic services in a downtown within a few blocks. not living at 12th and main, and having to walk to 18th and grand.

[CityLiving]

I'm sure some people unfamiliar with city living will enjoy living in Raytown with all those amenities, while the rest of us hopefully enjoy the same amenities in a vibrant downtown community that not only has everyday amenities, but nice restaurants and unique entertainment concepts to enjoy too.  But, be careful, you folks in Raytown don't want to pick up a DUI if you come downtown to enjoy a unique bar/restaurant or two. 

Having ALL of these things in one small walkable area will be a very big draw.  Without diversity of retail, bar, dining and entertainment venues you are doomed to your car.  The option of having everything you need within a comfortable walking distance is irrestistable.  Unfortunately, I have mis-timed my return to KC and have truly missed this lifestyle.  I hope KC will get there, but I am starting to get more skeptical now that I am here experiencing KC firsthand.  This was the reason I originally left several years ago.

[KC-wildcat]

Having ALL of these things in one small walkable area will be a very big draw.  Without diversity of retail, bar, dining and entertainment venues you are doomed to your car.  The option of having everything you need within a comfortable walking distance is irrestistable.  Unfortunately, I have mis-timed my return to KC and have truly missed this lifestyle.  I hope KC will get there, but I am starting to get more skeptical now that I am here experiencing KC firsthand.  This was the reason I originally left several years ago.

You guys are simply missing the point.  Nobody is saying not to put the necessity/staple establishments DT.  There are plenty of places in the loop for the staples.  Are they going to put a Starbucks into the P&L.  No, because there is one over on 12th and Main.  Are they going to put a Scooter's into the P&L?  No, because there is one over on 10th and Walnut.  Get it?  The "Entertainment District" should be for Entertainment; dining, drinking, dancing, shopping, etc.  The necessities can be both convenient and accessible for new condo owners without being placed smack dab in the middle of the P&L. 

Again, plenty of street level retail available within a stone's throw of the P&L.  Plenty of boarded up pawn-shops and bail bonds for these tenants.  Keep P&L one of a kind.  Keep it unique and interesting. 

[chrizow]

exactly.  i'm all for GNC and Jos A Bank and whatever else downtown, and i am still excited for the P+L in spite of all this....but i think it is reasonable to be a bit disappointed when 25% or so of the tenants in what has been billed as essentially the main tourist draw in a 200-mile radius are so ordinary

the P+L is still a "win," but each Lee's Summit Road-style tenant they announce is going to receive derision from me.  i'm not sure why people adhere to the "it's better than nothing!" approach - for $850M in the heart of a rebounding downtown, it had better be fucking AWESOME.  right now i'd give the announced tenants a collective score of B-

[KC12]

I agree there is plenty of empty spots downtown to put the boring but neccesary stores (dry cleaners, nail salon etc) Dont get me wrong these are definitely needed but its not called an entertainment district for nothing. Unless the drycleaners has strippers and a bar in it then its not entertainment to me.

[CityLiving]

I agree there is plenty of empty spots downtown to put the boring but neccesary stores (dry cleaners, nail salon etc)

How come these empty spaces aren't filled with these stores then?  We don't have these stores now downtown.  We finally get them and people complain??? 

If I am not mistaken, Cordish has always sold this as a shopping/living/entertainment package, not just a collection of concept bars and entertainment venues.

If this were purely an entertainment district, why were condos even considered in the first place by the developer?  Why was the grocery store one of the first tenants announced?

[WoodDraw]

exactly.  i'm all for GNC and Jos A Bank and whatever else downtown, and i am still excited for the P+L in spite of all this....but i think it is reasonable to be a bit disappointed when 25% or so of the tenants in what has been billed as essentially the main tourist draw in a 200-mile radius are so ordinary

the P+L is still a "win," but each Lee's Summit Road-style tenant they announce is going to receive derision from me.  i'm not sure why people adhere to the "it's better than nothing!" approach - for $850M in the heart of a rebounding downtown, it had better be fucking AWESOME.  right now i'd give the announced tenants a collective score of B-

Exactly.  I'll even defend Jos. A. Bank.  It's nothing special, but still decent.  My problem is with the nail salons and dry cleaners that should be going into existing ground level retail.  Those aren't the places we paid Cordish to bring in, regardless of what anyone says.

[CityLiving]

the P+L is still a "win," but each Lee's Summit Road-style tenant they announce is going to receive derision from me.  i'm not sure why people adhere to the "it's better than nothing!" approach - for $850M in the heart of a rebounding downtown, it had better be fucking AWESOME.  right now i'd give the announced tenants a collective score of B-

For $850 million in the heart of downtown, I hope its not just a collection of entertainment venues.  It had better be the catalyst for a vibrant and liveable downtown.  Thats what I believe we are paying him for.  This is not just a project that gives people from the suburbs new entertainment venues to visit.  That is certainly part of the equation though.  Just as it is creating a draw for tourists and conventioners.  It also should be a district that is liveable and draws new residents to the area.  For $850 million, I expect ALL these things.

[MidtownCat]

Exactly.  I'll even defend Jos. A. Bank.  It's nothing special, but still decent.  My problem is with the nail salons and dry cleaners that should be going into existing ground level retail.  Those aren't the places we paid Cordish to bring in, regardless of what anyone says.

Precisely, $300 million in subsidy so Cordish could fill the entertainment district with a dry cleaner and health suplements vendor????

Come on.  Of course we need these types of run of the mill basic services for downtown dwellers, but as others have said, let them come naturally and let them fill any one of the endless vacant storefonts surrounding the district.

This P&L District has been sold all along as a world class entertainment destination.  I don't think it's unfair in the very slightest to hold Cordish to a high standard considering the hundreds of millions in tax subsidy they've been handed to deliver on this project.

[shinatoo]

Precisely, $300 million in subsidy so Cordish could fill the entertainment district with a dry cleaner and health suplements vendor????

Come on.  Of course we need these types of run of the mill basic services for downtown dwellers, but as others have said, let them come naturally and let them fill any one of the endless vacant storefonts surrounding the district.

This P&L District has been sold all along as a world class entertainment destination.  I don't think it's unfair in the very slightest to hold Cordish to a high standard considering the hundreds of millions in tax subsidy they've been handed to deliver on this project.

Just a reminder, this is exactly how the Plaza started. For 60+ years it had a good mix of barber shops, dry cleaners, pharmacy's, drug stores and other basic services until about 15 years ago. They never kept people from coming, and when they started dropping out, people we outraged. Any good shopping district needs this type of retail.

[kcdcchef]

Just a reminder, this is exactly how the Plaza started. For 60+ years it had a good mix of barber shops, dry cleaners, pharmacy's, drug stores and other basic services until about 15 years ago. They never kept people from coming, and when they started dropping out, people we outraged. Any good shopping district needs this type of retail.

nope. the p&L has to be only unique places that are nouvelle, hip, and ultra amazing. it cost 850m remember, so for it to have basic services, it will be a waste. those should all be 6-8 blocks away so the average tenant will not want to walk, and also, not want to even be a tenant there in the first place.

welcome to utopia, downtown kansas city, the first planned neighborhood in the nation with NO basic services, only cool restaurants and sharper image type places. god, this is going to be so cool. i personally would love to live in a neighborhood with only bars, restaurants, and cool retail. i never knew what i was missing living in central park west and times square, those districts in that dumb little town were so stupid, they believed they needed cvs, dry cleaners, and salons. dumbasses. all they did was attract 400,000 residents to their 20 block area. dumbasses. if they had done it right, like the p&l is supposed to be, then perhaps times square would not be so blighted, empty, and under utilized. the p&l on the other hand, chock full of new fangled retail concepts, will surely boast 1-2 million happy residents, who dont dry clean their close, have their hair cut, grocery shop, or buy health supplements. no, they will always be happy eating appetizers at makers mark and walking down the street with 12 inch toenails and hair past their asses.