Downtown St Louis ROCKS

StL_Dan · Post by **StL_Dan** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:39 pm

I attended the Braggin' Rights game last night in StL.

Unbelievable. I never cease to be amazed by how much better the energy level and overall atmosphere sorrounding sports there compared to other cities without downtown venues.

A friend from KC went with me. We kept saying "St Louis sucks. We're never going to come here again for a sporting event. Savvis is a joke (as we marveled at it's external and internal beauty). And the people, bars, hotels and business of the city streets are crappy."

We laughed and laughed and laughed....then I started to wonder why KC has no apparent interest in building a downtown baseball and football stadium and why they aren't putting the petal to the metal for a new arena (which I know prolly won't work).

Oh....btw, Devin. I made sure to take several long looks at the skyline while walking from Locust to Clark. The STL skyline is VERY cool.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:25 pm

but not as cool as ours

we have taller buildings and have two big skylines instead of just one. We also have the plaza but they also have a similar thing by SLU and Forest Park.
However they will never have a skyline to match ours.
We have OP, KCK, KCMO, NKC. and in KCMO alone you have 3 skylines. No, they won't ever match us in skyline. My brother goes to STL ever week or two and tells me it is like "ghetto" (no offense if it is to anyone)
I've seen maps of STL, aerial photos, and lots of skyline shots and it is nothing like KC. Even our downtown loop skyline is larger if you don't count the 12 floor buildings.
Sorry but I cannot let you away without saying KC is better

I just gotta say it sucks without the arch.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:38 pm

for 3 downtown facilities, STL is not the poster child for stadiums bringing in development.

When I go to a game there I never see a lot of bars, etc. surrounding the stadiums....of course there is still more than around the sports complex here.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:26 pm

What is it like around those arena and stadiums when there aren't games with tens of thousands of tourists in town?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:49 pm

there is no retail around any of them.....that's what I mean. If you were anti-downtown arena/stadium, STL would be where you pointed.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:40 pm

Also, you can see thier "plaza" like area in the background.
Their skyline isn't nearly as large as ours. And you cannot count Clayton because its not in the city limits.

We could even stop at Crown Center and we'd still have a better skyline:

Post by **bahua** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:06 am

The area around Busch Stadium rocks on gameday. The Central West End, U City, and The Hill are all great urban neighborhoods. The CWE is kind of like the Plaza, except it's more apparent that people live and work there. That's not to say that the Plaza is empty, but it has much more of a tourist feel, than that of a real neighborhood. Also, I really wish that Swope Park could be the grand urban park that Forest Park is. Maybe it will be, someday.

However, that is neither here nor there. Comparing STL and KC is counterproductive. They are far too different to be judged on a level field. STL is an eastern city, and KC is a western one. It's like comparing Boston and Denver. But, I think that's one of the most exciting things about Missouri. It's such a crossroads that two markedly different cities share the state. It isn't a northern, southern, eastern, or western state. There's no state like it, in its marginality, its personality, and its appeal. There's something new and different for everyone, in Missouri.

STL rocks, and so does KC.

CGPinFL · Post by **CGPinFL** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:53 pm

You rock bahua, my thoughts exactly. I get tired of hearing the same broken record over and over and over again about how crappy Saint Louis is.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:47 pm

I just don't think STL belongs in the Midwest.
Chicago is more midwestern than STL, although they won't admit it.

Post by **bahua** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:05 pm

Huh?

When I first moved to KC, I referred to Illinois, where I'm from, as "back in the Midwest," because few people east of the Mississippi consider KC to be a part of it. My opinion is changed now, but I will only concede that KC is on the bleeding western edge of the Midwest.

STL absolutely is a midwestern city(being the first one, after all), but it has extra qualities, too, that liken it to eastern cities. Kansas City is the same way, concerning western cities.

Some people like to claim that the term "Midwestern" has to do with something more than geography, but it doesn't. Chicago isn't a midwestern city for any reason besides where it is. Its character is urban, cosmopolitan, and a blend of YUP and working-class.

Saint Louis is much the same, except the weather's nicer, people are more laid back, and news of AB dominates the city.

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:30 pm

Swope Park is great fun, but I guess a lot of people dont like cruising on Sunday afternoons. Ive only been to Saint Louis once, and it seemed so big compared to Kansas City to me. I also noticed that across the river in Illinois was a city that reminded me a lot of KCK. It was East St. Louis.

Post by **bahua** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:05 pm

I wouldn't go so far as to compare East St. Louis to KCK. East St. Louis is widely regarded as one of the poorest, most dangerous places in America, and it doesn't have anything going for it, either.

StL_Dan · Post by **StL_Dan** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:14 am

trailerkid wrote:What is it like around those arena and stadiums when there aren't games with tens of thousands of tourists in town?

that's just it....there seems to always be tourists and/or events in the city year round.

of course, stl is not chicago, ny or la. so there are definitely down times.

StL_Dan · Post by **StL_Dan** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:16 am

bahua wrote:The area around Busch Stadium rocks on gameday. The Central West End, U City, and The Hill are all great urban neighborhoods. The CWE is kind of like the Plaza, except it's more apparent that people live and work there. That's not to say that the Plaza is empty, but it has much more of a tourist feel, than that of a real neighborhood. Also, I really wish that Swope Park could be the grand urban park that Forest Park is. Maybe it will be, someday.

However, that is neither here nor there. Comparing STL and KC is counterproductive. They are far too different to be judged on a level field. STL is an eastern city, and KC is a western one. It's like comparing Boston and Denver. But, I think that's one of the most exciting things about Missouri. It's such a crossroads that two markedly different cities share the state. It isn't a northern, southern, eastern, or western state. There's no state like it, in its marginality, its personality, and its appeal. There's something new and different for everyone, in Missouri.

STL rocks, and so does KC.

nice take, b.

DanCa · Post by **DanCa** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:37 am

Growing up in KC, I always considered it the Midwest. But now that I've been in SoCal for years, I've picked up the what I hated hearing people out here say. They refer to everything east of Phoenix and Vegas as "Back East". So when people ask me where I was, I say "Back East in Kansas City".

Post by **bahua** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:46 am

I think just about everyone in the midwest likes to consider their home to be in about the middle of it. I have heard people in the KC area say that they think the midwest has its western edge at the beginning of the mountains!