KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:29 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
Public Works refuses to budge on full-scale "pre-emption" (always green), reserving that for emergency vehicles (who, coincidentally, don't use the systems PW has installed for them anyway, preferring to blow through intersections without signal changes).

People are used to stopping until they pass by, unless they’re blocking the vehicle and then they move.

Changing the signal to green wouldn’t change this. People are used to ambulances driving against traffic along side them and will wait at the light until it passes.

I’ve seen entire light cycles pass from red back to red waiting for a series of 3-4 emergency vehicles.

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KCPowercat
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby KCPowercat » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:03 am

It lessens the chance of cross traffic not seeing/hearing the emergency vehicle and entering the intersection.

It's dumb not to use it.

WoodDraw
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby WoodDraw » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:27 am

Especially downtown where you hear sirens all day and have no idea where they are or where they're going

flyingember
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:19 am

WoodDraw wrote:Especially downtown where you hear sirens all day and have no idea where they are or where they're going

KCPowercat wrote:It lessens the chance of cross traffic not seeing/hearing the emergency vehicle and entering the intersection..


Page 116
http://dor.mo.gov/forms/Driver%20Guide.pdf

If you can't figure out where the vehicle is you proceed with caution because you could be approaching it. Cross traffic should be extra careful.

Nothing changes if you can or can't see the vehicle.

Think of it being like watching for pedestrians. Don't just fly through the intersection, slow down and be prepared to drive defensively.

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KCPowercat
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby KCPowercat » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:29 am

Drivers guide...helpful. Thanks.

WoodDraw
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby WoodDraw » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:33 am

KCPowercat wrote:Drivers guide...helpful. Thanks.


Unfortunate that I stopped reading at page 115 last time.

flyingember
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:29 pm

WoodDraw wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Drivers guide...helpful. Thanks.


Unfortunate that I stopped reading at page 115 last time.


Joke aside, I bet very few new drivers have read the entire thing end to end.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:04 am

As ridership nears 4 million total rides it's become clear the financial model picked is a huge success for users, businesses and the city as a whole.

It has improved community interactions, as people who never would have met otherwise had a chance to talk to each other.

That's nearly 4 million times people have chosen to not drive from parking lot to parking lot and walked somewhere. This provides health benefits to the individual.

To the toy train and the many benefits it provides!

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normalthings
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby normalthings » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:17 am

flyingember wrote:As ridership nears 4 million total rides it's become clear the financial model picked is a huge success for users, businesses and the city as a whole.

It has improved community interactions, as people who never would have met otherwise had a chance to talk to each other.

That's nearly 4 million times people have chosen to not drive from parking lot to parking lot and walked somewhere. This provides health benefits to the individual.

To the toy train and the many benefits it provides!

I wonder if we can use this model for BRT.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby earthling » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:33 am

Start with a well publicized free bus from Northland to Downtown for Broadway Bridge closure (North Oak line from Barry Rd to CC). Might be easier to pass something like a TDD along impacted districts when taken away then upgrade to a free MAX line, ideally true BRT most of way with signal priority.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby mykn » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:42 am

flyingember wrote:As ridership nears 4 million total rides it's become clear the financial model picked is a huge success for users, businesses and the city as a whole.

It has improved community interactions, as people who never would have met otherwise had a chance to talk to each other.

That's nearly 4 million times people have chosen to not drive from parking lot to parking lot and walked somewhere. This provides health benefits to the individual.

To the toy train and the many benefits it provides!


Has anyone actually studied why our streetcar is so much more successful than lines in other cities? I would bet you're right that the funding mechanism (more specifically, free rides) is the reason.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby dnweava » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:01 am

mykn wrote:
flyingember wrote:As ridership nears 4 million total rides it's become clear the financial model picked is a huge success for users, businesses and the city as a whole.

It has improved community interactions, as people who never would have met otherwise had a chance to talk to each other.

That's nearly 4 million times people have chosen to not drive from parking lot to parking lot and walked somewhere. This provides health benefits to the individual.

To the toy train and the many benefits it provides!


Has anyone actually studied why our streetcar is so much more successful than lines in other cities? I would bet you're right that the funding mechanism (more specifically, free rides) is the reason.


It is 100% due to free rides. I ride it multiple times per month. I would never ride it if I had to pay since I can easily walk the distance it travels and parking is everywhere.

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normalthings
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby normalthings » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:07 am

Even without free rides, I doubt we would be doing as bad as Cincinnati.

Update: I wonder if we could pick up their unused CAF Urbos options and/or any unused streetcars.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby mykn » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:25 am

You’re right, political leadership helped to make this a success.

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grovester
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby grovester » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:32 am

Will be curious to see Milwaukee's numbers, as they will have a fare.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:44 am

ldai_phs wrote:Even without free rides, I doubt we would be doing as bad as Cincinnati.
I saw a Cincinnati opinion cartoon that firmly placed the blame on city hall and no one else.

I think it's fair to say that picking the financial model selected, that led to the free line that turned out ridership, wouldn't have happened without strong political support.

The two are absolutely connected.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:46 am

grovester wrote:Will be curious to see Milwaukee's numbers, as they will have a fare.

Atlanta provides some lessons.

The first five months of 2017 they had 200,000 riders. We had almost 800,000
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/6/9/157 ... ety-issues

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:32 am

dnweava wrote:
mykn wrote:
flyingember wrote:As ridership nears 4 million total rides it's become clear the financial model picked is a huge success for users, businesses and the city as a whole.

It has improved community interactions, as people who never would have met otherwise had a chance to talk to each other.

That's nearly 4 million times people have chosen to not drive from parking lot to parking lot and walked somewhere. This provides health benefits to the individual.

To the toy train and the many benefits it provides!


Has anyone actually studied why our streetcar is so much more successful than lines in other cities? I would bet you're right that the funding mechanism (more specifically, free rides) is the reason.


It is 100% due to free rides. I ride it multiple times per month. I would never ride it if I had to pay since I can easily walk the distance it travels and parking is everywhere.


How are we measuring success? # of passengers is one obvious way but not really the best indicator in city's system imo

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grovester
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby grovester » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:42 am

flyingember wrote:
grovester wrote:Will be curious to see Milwaukee's numbers, as they will have a fare.

Atlanta provides some lessons.

The first five months of 2017 they had 200,000 riders. We had almost 800,000
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/6/9/157 ... ety-issues


Right, I'm aware of the general connection between fares and ridership.

I'd like to see Milwaukee's as they are more of a peer city in population, weather and state of current transportation levels.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:32 am

KCPowercat wrote:How are we measuring success? # of passengers is one obvious way but not really the best indicator in city's system imo

It's clearly not the best KPI from a transit standpoint, that would be if it's meeting vehicle frequency goals (every X minutes), but number of riders is the easiest one to use for the general public

before it opened one of the most common points the naysayers claimed is "no one will use it because it doesn't go anywhere"

I would say the three key pieces to publicize are
who uses it
when they use it
how often they use it

I would call these an easy proxy for success that everyone understands without needing to get into the details. It's hard to argue it's poorly run, poorly maintained, is slow or the like when so many people ride it.


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