KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Transportation topics in KC
earthling
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby earthling » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:08 am

Don't know if posted but Jan 2018 had 97K riders compared to about 90K Jan 2017, the lowest ridership month of the year.
http://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uploa ... ership.pdf

On another topic, what are the overall thoughts of streetcar impact on development? Seems great when looking at the bigger picture but I was hoping now that we are coming up on 2 years of operations that many more surface lots within 2 blocks of streetcar would have a developer lined up. It's not bad for sure (especially River Market and some Xroads action) but was thinking more lots would have some motion now that we are coming up to 2 years - especially near 7th/Main. Maybe expectations too high...

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:23 am

earthling wrote:Don't know if posted but Jan 2018 had 97K riders compared to about 90K Jan 2017, the lowest ridership month of the year.
http://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uploa ... ership.pdf

On another topic, what are the overall thoughts of streetcar impact on development? Seems great when looking at the bigger picture but I was hoping now that we are coming up on 2 years of operations that many more surface lots within 2 blocks of streetcar would have a developer lined up. It's not bad for sure (especially River Market and some Xroads action) but was thinking more lots would have some motion now that we are coming up to 2 years - especially near 7th/Main. Maybe expectations too high...


You can't force people to develop their lots. I can explain every vacant lot (developer won't sell, priced well above market, stuck in legal limbo, deal unannounced). 7th and Main is almost entirely controlled by Tower Properties and I know they've been approached. If they're working on something other than downtown baseball (most likely scenario), they're keeping it very quiet.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:24 am

earthling wrote:On another topic, what are the overall thoughts of streetcar impact on development? Seems great when looking at the bigger picture but I was hoping now that we are coming up on 2 years of operations that many more surface lots within 2 blocks of streetcar would have a developer lined up. It's not bad for sure (especially River Market and some Xroads action) but was thinking more lots would have some motion now that we are coming up to 2 years - especially near 7th/Main. Maybe expectations too high...


You're thinking several stages into the process.

For most lots, it's owned by someone who also owns a building. Many lots are going to have contracts to provide parking with the space or their bank loan requires it. So the very first thing to happen is owners need to get out of these contracts.

So the very first step is to even make it possible to think about development. I would expect it will take years to get past this even for owners interested in selling or developing.

My go to example is the lot at 12th and Broadway. Ownership issues were in the courts for years.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby earthling » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:20 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
earthling wrote:Don't know if posted but Jan 2018 had 97K riders compared to about 90K Jan 2017, the lowest ridership month of the year.
http://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uploa ... ership.pdf

On another topic, what are the overall thoughts of streetcar impact on development? Seems great when looking at the bigger picture but I was hoping now that we are coming up on 2 years of operations that many more surface lots within 2 blocks of streetcar would have a developer lined up. It's not bad for sure (especially River Market and some Xroads action) but was thinking more lots would have some motion now that we are coming up to 2 years - especially near 7th/Main. Maybe expectations too high...


You can't force people to develop their lots. I can explain every vacant lot (developer won't sell, priced well above market, stuck in legal limbo, deal unannounced). 7th and Main is almost entirely controlled by Tower Properties and I know they've been approached. If they're working on something other than downtown baseball (most likely scenario), they're keeping it very quiet.


Yeah, not so much thinking to 'force' people to develop but rather more big ticket national developers coming in and making offers they can't refuse. That's not happening at level I was hoping would occur within 2 years. RM is great and Xroads has some action but now that office vacancy is lower maybe big ticket developers will show up for the large lots around 7th/Main area.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:04 pm

Yeah, pretty sure Commerce is banking that land for downtown baseball.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby Riverite » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:12 pm

Isn't that like ten years out though if it even happens at the earliest?

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby Riverite » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:13 pm

If we are getting rid of the North Loop still having blocks of parking lots is not gonna make it nearly as beneficial as it could be otherwise.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:17 pm

Riverite wrote:Isn't that like ten years out though if it even happens at the earliest?


Not sure that matters. Why sell the land or construct something only to tear it down in 10 years? That doesn't sound like a very good investment.

Five years was the time horizon I had in my head for judging development success of streetcar. Check back in 2021!

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:13 pm

Royals lease ends in 2030. 12 years will go very quickly especially if want to be proactive and not be held hostage by "give us what we want or we will move" professional team ploys.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby Pork Chop » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:37 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:Yeah, pretty sure Commerce is banking that land for downtown baseball.


Would that possibly mean the "Flashcube" building would need to be demolished along with the building on the corner of 6th and Wyandotte and then using those six blocks of mostly parking between 6th and 8th/Central and Main?

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby Riverite » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:55 pm

They are converting the flashcube building to apartments and adding another building, so my guess would be no.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby flyingember » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:16 pm

Riverite wrote:They are converting the flashcube building to apartments and adding another building, so my guess would be no.

rezoning was approved yesterday

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9592&start=60#p573956

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby TheBigChuckbowski » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:20 pm

I'm not sure I really understand the logic here. If a developer comes in and makes a legitimate offer, I don't see how Commerce could think it's a better strategy to sit on the land in the hopes that maybe in 10 years the Royals might select their site for a new stadium if they decide to move and even if all that works out, who's to say that the Royals/Jackson County pay more than what they could get now (with 10 years of inflation on top)? What am I missing?

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby ldai_phs » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm

In 10 years there will be no large collections of clear land left. The riverfront is expected to be built out by then, CX east will be, etc. There won't be any big empty parcels left. This will leave Commerce Bank with a clear advantage if big projects like a stadium or large tech company HQ comes a round. Selling off small parcels now in some ways presents a huge opportunity cost when compared to large future projects. Personally, I would rather see them begin working on their own large master development there.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:30 pm

They wouldn't do it without some sort of gentleman's agreement with the royals... Long time partners

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:29 pm

New bollards went in today to prevent scofflaws who block the tracks in front of Commerce Tower:

Image

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby longviewmo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:35 pm

So why wasn't the curb just bumped out there?

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby WoodDraw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:37 pm

longviewmo wrote:So why wasn't the curb just bumped out there?


That area is brutal at delaying the streetcar. I'm guessing it was the quickest, cheapest solution to the problem that had to be fixed. It should have been bumped out at design, but oh well. They fixed it :)

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:39 pm

longviewmo wrote:So why wasn't the curb just bumped out there?


If it was a curb, people would still try and park there. The yellow bollards say something pretty specific.

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Postby WoodDraw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:42 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
longviewmo wrote:So why wasn't the curb just bumped out there?


If it was a curb, people would still try and park there. The yellow bollards say something pretty specific.


People actually tried to park up on the curbs to stay out of the street car [-X


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