KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[earthling]

So thinking about reducing car traffic on Main through downtown coming from Midtown... How about reconfiguring N bound Main from about 30th to guide traffic down Grand split by default and discourage Main downhill by noting for 'local traffic'. Or something along those lines. Sort of like how Holmes road at about 67th directs traffic to/from Rockhill Rd.

Main St through downtown is going to become heavy pedestrian and is now one lane. Would be good to keep Grand and Broadway through downtown as primary N/S drags for heavy car traffic, Main St as PedX/streetcar strip and perhaps Walnut as a bike path through most of downtown.

[flyingember]

I'm thinking how that would work with phase 2 and I can see it. Main used to have a similar split where it dropped to one lane NB at 20th with the walnut split so it's not impossible to make work.

Realign 27th to connect directly with Memorial. (A slight bend to fix this bad geometry.) Keep the signal and remove the stop sign. There's plenty of width at 27th to put a median stop in with the stop on the north side.

Take the inside lane both ways from 31st to Pershing and that becomes dedicated train space. (down from 6 lanes to 4)
Take the outside lane on the SB side and put a two-way protected bike lane in all the way from 20th to 31st. (down to 3)
Remove the outside SB lane/convert to full time parking. (down to 2)

At today's Grand split you take the two NB lanes and align it so both can veer right but only the inside lane can stay on Main. Very similar to Main at 7th today.

At Pershing you remove the inside lane both directions from Pershing to 20th and take the system down to one lane each way at Pershing, following the track. You just keep the left turn section for NB at 20th

It works as part of a bigger picture.

[aknowledgeableperson]

So thinking about reducing car traffic on Main through downtown coming from Midtown... How about reconfiguring N bound Main from about 30th to guide traffic down Grand split by default and discourage Main downhill by noting for 'local traffic'. Or something along those lines. Sort of like how Holmes road at about 67th directs traffic to/from Rockhill Rd.

Main St through downtown is going to become heavy pedestrian and is now one lane. Would be good to keep Grand and Broadway through downtown as primary N/S drags for heavy car traffic, Main St as PedX/streetcar strip and perhaps Walnut as a bike path through most of downtown.

As stated in another topic Grand is closed often for Sprint Center events.

[KCPowercat]

Oak!

[TheBigChuckbowski]

How many cars use/would use Grand as a thru street from midtown to north of Sprint Center?

[flyingember]

How many cars use/would use Grand as a thru street from midtown to north of Sprint Center?

Probably most of them since it's wider than every street downtown except for Broadway and Oak

Broadway is farther to get to from Main than Grand is and it backs up quicker and more often than Grand. Oak isn't bad but the direct route to it is past Grand.

Wyandotte is your second best choice from Man

[shinatoo]

Time to stop letting car usage primarily dictate how downtown functions.

[aknowledgeableperson]

But part of downtown function depends on the car. People use cars to get to and from. Even in places like New York and Chicago.

[KCPowercat]

Dropping knowledge!

[scooterj]

As stated in another topic Grand is closed often for Sprint Center events.

As well as in Crown Center, at least a few times a year.

[shinatoo]

But part of downtown function depends on the car. People use cars to get to and from. Even in places like New York and Chicago.

That's why I used the word "primarily".

[aknowledgeableperson]

That part I understand. But even in NYC and Chicago "much" of their functions do rely on individual cars, whether privately owned or hired.

[bobbyhawks]

I'm so excited that we are nearing the finish line on phase I. I have a French person staying at my house, and I recently dropped her off at the City Market to shop and hang out. I brought up the bus routes available to get back to the Westside, and she was pretty confused by the criss-crossing nature of things. She doesn't have a working smart phone, so she opted to just walk home instead (only like a 10-15 minute difference anyway considering the zig-zagging bus lines). Good thing she is fine with walking, but the straight shot of the streetcar will be so refreshing when describing how to get around. Once I learn the stops, I will be able to tell people where to go from memory.

[flyingember]

That part I understand. But even in NYC and Chicago "much" of their functions do rely on individual cars, whether privately owned or hired.

And that's not bad, it's the density of vehicle use that matters.

1000 private cars parking in a garage is different from 1000 people hopping in 15 person vans. (14 seats = 71 vehicles)
In both cases you need to support cars, but you can either have way less cars or have way more people in the same space. So roads can be skinnier or quicker to travel on or have more on street parking. And for the people that want to own a car, they end up with a better environment than being in the middle of 1000 people all in their own vehicle.

Uber is based around this very idea.

Putting a streetcar in benefits car owners. If I go downtown and want to visit the city market, P&L and Union Station I need to park once and take transit or park three times. And if I want to do this during an event I'm unlikely to find parking at all the locations unless they build enough. If Union Station wants to draw 5000 people to an event it needs like 3500 parking spots at it.

Transit is too low frequency and too small to be certain I can get a seat today during a big event. As we know, with the train you can make transit much denser for the same overall cost, a very important consideration in making it happen. If we could afford higher density bus service we would have it already.

So now with density being cheaper you don't need to provide 3500 spots at every place that holds 5000 people. You can assume some people will park elsewhere and use the train. So suddenly my ability as a car user to visit and enjoy places downtown goes up. I can still try to find a spot close but I don't have to. By parking once and switching modes for my visit to the area I benefit greatly and nothing changes about my ability to drive a car to downtown. How we treat cars at the end point is what changed.

Add the bus and Bridj into the mix for the entire network. That one bus that gets to P&L is no longer the choke point. You now can saturate every bus that connects to the train because each train can be bigger as demand proves it needs to grow.

And all this leads to the end result so often brought up. When new buildings go up they can build a cheaper project that gives them more return because they can assume parking at their location is not required or they can provide less of it.

And I don't know about you, but I'm fine with developers saving money. Being a city that makes things cheaper for builders of very large projects without incentives is exactly where we want to be. We want that kind of reputation.

[flyingember]

I'm so excited that we are nearing the finish line on phase I. I have a French person staying at my house, and I recently dropped her off at the City Market to shop and hang out. I brought up the bus routes available to get back to the Westside, and she was pretty confused by the criss-crossing nature of things. She doesn't have a working smart phone, so she opted to just walk home instead (only like a 10-15 minute difference anyway considering the zig-zagging bus lines). Good thing she is fine with walking, but the straight shot of the streetcar will be so refreshing when describing how to get around. Once I learn the stops, I will be able to tell people where to go from memory.

I couldn't tell you where any busses turn at any given time in KC. They change directions too often to identify a logical path. When you need a map to figure out the direction you're going you failed.

I've used Houston as an example before but look at their transit routes.

Train- straight, straight, straight. jogs a bit but no back and forth turns through town to hit everywhere
busses- mostly straight. You transfer from a direct route to a direct route in most cases.

http://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/SystemMap.aspx

[Highlander]

I'm so excited that we are nearing the finish line on phase I. I have a French person staying at my house, and I recently dropped her off at the City Market to shop and hang out. I brought up the bus routes available to get back to the Westside, and she was pretty confused by the criss-crossing nature of things. She doesn't have a working smart phone, so she opted to just walk home instead (only like a 10-15 minute difference anyway considering the zig-zagging bus lines). Good thing she is fine with walking, but the straight shot of the streetcar will be so refreshing when describing how to get around. Once I learn the stops, I will be able to tell people where to go from memory.

I couldn't tell you where any busses turn at any given time in KC. They change directions too often to identify a logical path. When you need a map to figure out the direction you're going you failed.

I've used Houston as an example before but look at their transit routes.

Train- straight, straight, straight. jogs a bit but no back and forth turns through town to hit everywhere
busses- mostly straight. You transfer from a direct route to a direct route in most cases.

http://www.ridemetro.org/Pages/SystemMap.aspx

That might just be more a function of Houston where even much of the "urban core" was essentially built in the post auto era. Wide, flat, through-going streets like Westheimer prevail. KC's interior road system much more impacted by topography, pre-auto era expansion, and an attempt to beautify - not a simple grid so not so easy to set up a bus system.

[DaveKCMO]

real-time arrival signs are active and testing!

[smh]

real-time arrival signs are active and testing!

Had a question today from a suburban coworker as to what the times meant on the signs. She was under the impression that the time shown was how long it would take to get to Union Station. That was a new one for me.

[DaveKCMO]

the current display isn't what will be final, so hopefully it will make more sense to casual users (and those familiar with MAX).

[smh]

the current display isn't what will be final, so hopefully it will make more sense to casual users (and those familiar with MAX).

I think this lady's issue was just that she's never used transit. Period.