KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Transportation topics in KC
earthling
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling »

Is great to see significant growth after a year when other systems tend to shrink if not struggle after first year (see Cincy and Atlanta). Would be interesting to see a stat of those opposed to streetcar before opening and now for it.
earthling
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by earthling »

Have noticed some people are still not aware streetcar is free to ride.

Maybe the streetcar should be renamed as Free Streetcar.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by joshmv »

earthling wrote:Have noticed some people are still not aware streetcar is free to ride.

Maybe the streetcar should be renamed as Free Streetcar.
I've never taken any time to think about how I would know it was free if I was from out of town or just really out of touch.

If they aren't making it blatantly obvious at each stop and on each streetcar, they really should.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

there is signage inside the vehicle and on each shelter indicate it's free to ride. one good addition would be to add it to the LED headsigns, which currently just say "RIVER MARKET" or "UNION STATION".
WoodDraw
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by WoodDraw »

Isn't there signage on every stop too? Like a numbered list of how to ride the streetcar, one being like just hop on? Or am I making things up?
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

Who reads the signage at the shelter? It's always too crowded to get to it.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

FWIW. From a friend on Facebook who by the way is an urban type not a suburbanite. From an experience today at lunchtime.
"Why is it that every time I take streetcar they are changing shifts!"
"And for the third time in two weeks it was faster to walk back from downtown to the market than wait in the streetcar. 10 minute sweaty walk and still no sign of out here."
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:"Why is it that every time I take streetcar they are changing shifts!"
there's no toilet on the streetcar. trust me, they're not clocking out every time.
"And for the third time in two weeks it was faster to walk back from downtown to the market than wait in the streetcar. 10 minute sweaty walk and still no sign of out here."
there are digital signs that tell you how long you have to wait and half a dozen mobile apps that give you the same information so you don't have to wait outside very long.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by WoodDraw »

It's almost always quicker to walk unless you're going end to end in the streetcar, or you hit it just right. I live right off it and I rarely take it unless I'm going to union station. We badly need to start thinking of ideas of how to get traffic off of main street. Absolute light priority has to be step number one.

I was waiting for it the other morning and the light turned red just as it was pulling up. Insane.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by WoodDraw »

Even though I live right there, I am awful at streets and memory in general. So if this is stupid or already done, please make fun of me. But I know a few other cities do it where the streetcar street can be right turns only. Has that been considered?
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by pash »

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WoodDraw
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by WoodDraw »

Thanks for the really good response. Isn't there a garage between 9th and 10th that constantly slows up the street car? Right beyond a light?
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mean
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by mean »

Not that it matters much since I couldn't vote on the initial line and can't vote on the extension (although I did vote in favor of the eastside extension I was eligible for) but it's frustrating since pretty much every reason I was initially opposed to the streetcar has proven to be true. I do like having it, and I appreciate the ecodev stuff it has allegedly brought, but it's not actual transit that gets the majority of people who need public transit to, say, jobs; and it's painfully slow; and the libertarian shitlords (one of which I have occasionally been accused of being) that piss on anything which requires taxation are right that we could have instead purchased a ton of busses--not that people who don't rely on busses ever ride them, but that doesn't make the public perception argument much less persuasive. Sure, I'll take a handful of full streetcars over a fleet of empty busses, but it's supremely irritating that 1) they don't really go anywhere, and 2) we're making zero effort to make driving more painful or unnecessary. It's like KCMO wants to have its cake and eat it too. We want easy car access and free or cheap parking above all else, but we'll throw in an expensive, slow as molasses bit of rail kit and a couple pretend BRT lines to complement the hideously-ineffective-for-most-trips bus service to make it look like we're trying. I'm so torn. I'm proud of the streetcar and enjoy it on the rare occasion I get to use it, but I have a really hard time reconciling the cost with the benefit. I'd much rather spend WAY more money on something that could get someone from Blue Springs to Olathe or midtown to Liberty--and I honestly think the vast majority of people in the metro would agree--but that isn't an option, and I doubt it ever will be, because suburban white people (which is to say, where all the money is) think that to fulfill their American Dream they need a massive suburban lot for their house so their kids can "play in the backyard" instead of having to go to a shared public park where they might encounter a nonwhite person and will invariably get abducted by a pedophile. I hate identity politics, but goddamn sometimes I just want to punch white people in the dick for their shit.

Obviously I'm horribly oversimplifying and, well, ranting, but I get so annoyed by this crap. The equation is so simple. Density = more revenue = better services. It really is that simple, right? And as a bonus, you get to leave the woods and forests and prairies for wildlife instead of SUV storage concrete pads! It's like a god damned miracle! I swear, people are so stupid.

</overlong drunken rant>
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grovester
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by grovester »

I feel your rant and agree with almost everything you just posted, but don't bag on the streetcar, it's not the problem. It's totally working and is changing the city in a fundamental way. It's also paying for itself.

And once we get the new cars, that will be as fast as I want it to be, at least until the second phase is implemented.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by pash »

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

pash wrote:The delays and poor headways of the streetcar seem to be down to four things: overcrowding, lack of effective consistent signal priority, scheduled and unscheduled staffing delays, and weekend traffic in the River Market/P&L. Traffic on the rest of Main does not seem to be slowing the streetcar much.
FTFY
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

mean wrote:we could have instead purchased a ton of busses
...but we wouldn't have the money to operate them.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

grovester wrote:And once we get the new cars, that will be as fast as I want it to be, at least until the second phase is implemented.
the city will have to make significant changes to on-street parking, garage access, and city market/P&L traffic flow to enable consistent four-car operations once the two additional cars arrive. thankfully, they have two years to figure that all out.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by pash »

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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

pash wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:
pash wrote:... scheduled and unscheduled staffing delays ...
FTFY
If you don't think that the long stops at Union Station contribute to inconsistent headways and frustrating waits for a streetcar to show up at stops up the line, you're not paying attention. As I already pointed out, it's a problem that the people who could change this don't think it's a problem.
the layovers are union station are planned. yes, they should be shorter. that's not what contributes to waits elsewhere. with the layovers, headways are scheduled at 10-12 minutes all day long with three vehicles.

the duration at union station is a function of expected passenger loads at certain times of the day. you don't see them that long early morning or late evening weekdays because loads are lighter, allowing shorter dwell times and skipping of stops. the main way to fix that is to add a fourth car at peak periods, which is in progress. you could maybe get there will full signal pre-emption (zero red lights), which public works doesn't allow for any transit route. even then, you'd get bogged down with the occasional parked car or heavy passenger loads.

"frustrating waits" elsewhere are a function of the other items you mentioned, not union station layovers.

the team is constantly discussing when to make the next schedule change (the last one was july 2) -- which impacts the real-time arrival system, trip planning, and multiple layers of route management/dispatch software -- and it's not as simple as using a stopwatch and one customer's perception from one platform on one day. getting more aggressive with dwell times has been discussed, but that is a balance with customer service and how pokey kansas citians are. they're slow on the bus, too, which is one reason why travel times on our buses aren't that great.

i get it. it's frustrating. you'd rather have light rail. this is what we built, and people are diligently working to make sure the city doesn't fuck it up.
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