KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Transportation topics in KC
archiKC
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by archiKC »

Just saw this on KC Business Journal. Read up and enjoy

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... -ends.html
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

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KCAF Investors, L.L.C., Sue Ann Burke, Logic II, L.L.C., Logic III, L.L.C., and Stretch/Jeffrey Rumaner, Appellants, vs. Kansas City Downtown Streetcar Transportation Development District, a Missouri Political Subdivision, Respondent.


Appellants KCAF Investors, L.L.C., and Sue A. Burke's application for transfer from the Missouri Court of Appeals, No. WD76354, denied.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by scooterj »

From the KC Star version of the article:
“It probably means I’m going to have to relocate my business,” [Sue Burke] said. “I will move my business out of Kansas City, Mo., to Kansas, where they seem to encourage business.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/12/24/47 ... rylink=cpy
Really? Please? I've love for Kansas to get stuck with you and someone who actually cares about contributing to their community taking over your building.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

scooterj wrote:From the KC Star version of the article:
“It probably means I’m going to have to relocate my business,” [Sue Burke] said. “I will move my business out of Kansas City, Mo., to Kansas, where they seem to encourage business.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/12/24/47 ... rylink=cpy
Really? Please? I've love for Kansas to get stuck with you and someone who actually cares about contributing to their community taking over your building.

To this day I wonder where this business would move to that would be an improvement over their current spot? Probably depends on where their customers are.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by heatherkay »

A business that sells air filters probably shouldn't be in neighborhood that is trying to reinvent itself as a residential/commercial destination. It seems like the East or West Bottoms or some other industrial setting would be better for everyone and closer to her customers.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by beautyfromashes »

Please don't put her in the East or West Bottoms. She'll be a pain again in ten years when the same thing happens. There are plenty of good industrial buildings north of the river on Burlingyon.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by longviewmo »

Maybe she'll just go out of business? If your viability depends on a relatively small tax...
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by heatherkay »

beautyfromashes wrote:Please don't put her in the East or West Bottoms. She'll be a pain again in ten years when the same thing happens. There are plenty of good industrial buildings north of the river on Burlingyon.
I think 10 years for the East Bottoms is a little . . . optimistic. There might be a little node around Knuckleheads and Local Pig, but there is too much industrial capital there for that to change any time soon. And there is not one thing wrong with that. A healthy city needs industrial areas as much as it needs loft apartments and artist colonies.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

beautyfromashes wrote:Please don't put her in the East or West Bottoms. She'll be a pain again in ten years when the same thing happens. There are plenty of good industrial buildings north of the river on Burlingyon.
Ironic you suggest she move instead to an area with a streetcar tax already on the books instead.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

if anyone was wondering, this is indeed the end of the line for lawsuits against the streetcar district. the original ruling contained an "estoppel". i'm not a lawyer, but that basically means no one can sue the district on the same grounds (or so i'm told).

by the way, existing ratepayers have grounds for a countersuit since bond rates have definitely risen since they were originally planned to sell (january 2013). people paying into the district will have to wait LONGER for their assessments to go down as a direct result of this interference.

also, AFAIK the legal bill was paid by the city and not the district, so technically any KCMO resident could countersue for damages as well.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by loftguy »

DaveKCMO wrote:if anyone was wondering, this is indeed the end of the line for lawsuits against the streetcar district. the original ruling contained an "estoppel". i'm not a lawyer, but that basically means no one can sue the district on the same grounds (or so i'm told).

by the way, existing ratepayers have grounds for a countersuit since bond rates have definitely risen since they were originally planned to sell (january 2013). people paying into the district will have to wait LONGER for their assessments to go down as a direct result of this interference.

also, AFAIK the legal bill was paid by the city and not the district, so technically any KCMO resident could countersue for damages as well.
It's hard not to find the idea of countersuit 'appealling'. The public has in fact, been harmed.

An ugly chapter. A lot has been lost in this process.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

a lot wasn't lost when looking at this from the standpoint of decades of train lines in any city that can find the funding. at the end it is worthwhile KC set the blueprint to use moving forward.

a counter suit would be costly and time wasting. the idea has merit but I don't think it's worth the tradeoffs involved.
you would need to involve the time of people involved with the project to prove damages and frankly I'd rather people put their effort towards the many other city projects in the works

it also has an air of retribution against it. and KC has been doing well because it's been largely been doing things the right way. the upper ground is really hard to get back when ceded.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

"also, AFAIK the legal bill was paid by the city and not the district, so technically any KCMO resident could countersue for damages as well."

Nothing prevents the city from billing the district since it is a legitimate district expense. The city will be billing the district for other expenses it may incur on the districts behalf, much like the city does for bond issues.
Of course one can countersue but the time to do it would be when the actual suit is still active. Anyway, suing doesn't mean one would win.
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grovester
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by grovester »

flyingember wrote:a lot wasn't lost when looking at this from the standpoint of decades of train lines in any city that can find the funding. at the end it is worthwhile KC set the blueprint to use moving forward.

a counter suit would be costly and time wasting. the idea has merit but I don't think it's worth the tradeoffs involved.
you would need to involve the time of people involved with the project to prove damages and frankly I'd rather people put their effort towards the many other city projects in the works

it also has an air of retribution against it. and KC has been doing well because it's been largely been doing things the right way. the upper ground is really hard to get back when ceded.
Pretty sure you missed most of loftguy's point. I would like to know how much this actually added to the project before I decided.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

grovester wrote: Pretty sure you missed most of loftguy's point. I would like to know how much this actually added to the project before I decided.
I got it. the city is trying to put together a much larger phase 2 package including NKC. I believe the city should translate this win into moving that forward on that project with clean hands. the long-term value of 15 miles of track is way more than the lost dollars on phase 1. could even put together the election to help account for this. a lower property tax that is implemented in ~2015 downtown with a larger TDD for example. there's no reason to even get close to looking vindicate or petty, no matter the reality.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by KCPowercat »

I'll help her move. PM me Sue.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by DaveKCMO »

KCP&L starts more utility relocations:
Beginning January 2, the right, northbound lane of Main Street will be closed from the southeast corner of 13th & Main approximately 200 feet south while KCP&L relocates a manhole cover. Work will start on January 6 and is expected to be completed by February 8.

Beginning January 6, traffic moving through the intersection of 3rd and Grand will be reduced to one lane each direction while KCP&L relocates a manhole cover at the southwest corner of the intersection. This work is anticipated to be completed by February 5.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by flyingember »

Beginning January 6, traffic moving through the intersection of 3rd and Grand will be reduced to one lane each direction while KCP&L relocates a manhole cover at the southwest corner of the intersection. This work is anticipated to be completed by February 5.
something got lost in translation. both roads are already only one lane each intersection

maybe they mean they'll lose the parking lane temporarily
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by KCMax »

Dave, why aren't they sending you to Spain?????

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... spain.html
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar

Post by loftguy »

KCMax wrote:Dave, why aren't they sending you to Spain?????

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... spain.html

In a hard hitting expose', KCBJ's (accent on bj's) Austin Alonzo dives into the seamy world of civic endeavor....

"how many No. 2 pencils were purchased?"

"did you eat lunch?"

.....and more
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