KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[flyingember]

- kick-off of Final Design phase (which will take about 6 months and have some public involvement component)

if there's one thing with design, it need to be that there's some kind of stop cover that doesn't block sidewalk traffic and is bigger. The bus ones are functional but kind of ugly and max out quickly so you get a lot of people standing outside of them at busy stops. I don' know what's possible but I imagine there has to be a way to make them be more substantial in terms of what they cover. this is one area I've never seen a great solution done by any city I've been in.

[smh]

- kick-off of Final Design phase (which will take about 6 months and have some public involvement component)

if there's one thing with design, it need to be that there's some kind of stop cover that doesn't block sidewalk traffic and is bigger. The bus ones are functional but kind of ugly and max out quickly so you get a lot of people standing outside of them at busy stops. I don' know what's possible but I imagine there has to be a way to make them be more substantial in terms of what they cover. this is one area I've never seen a great solution done by any city I've been in.

Please just design the stations so that they look like the ones in PDX. Those are great and I think we have enough room for them.

Also, the streetcar is going to kick ass. No doubt!

[flyingember]

- kick-off of Final Design phase (which will take about 6 months and have some public involvement component)

if there's one thing with design, it need to be that there's some kind of stop cover that doesn't block sidewalk traffic and is bigger. The bus ones are functional but kind of ugly and max out quickly so you get a lot of people standing outside of them at busy stops. I don' know what's possible but I imagine there has to be a way to make them be more substantial in terms of what they cover. this is one area I've never seen a great solution done by any city I've been in.

Please just design the stations so that they look like the ones in PDX. Those are great and I think we have enough room for them.

Also, the streetcar is going to kick ass. No doubt!

found some photos online.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3375/3502 ... a696_b.jpg
here's a good example of a portland station.

they do look nicer which would do away with the ugly part. no arguing that. but they don't look like they solve the problem of not holding many people. Notice how there's room for maybe 6 people to stay dry in bad weather. To be used seriously as a first mode or transportation we need to think about someone wanting to get home during a winter storm and not just someone, but 20 someones at once.

I'm actually suggesting that we go way further than that basic design. This is the time to investigate if there's something substantially better that fits more people without blocking a sidewalk. This would be a great school project for this coming spring. Professors like real world projects and maybe a student could see their ideas put to use which looks great on a resume. there's no reason to have a busy system where most the people waiting get wet in the rain if it turns out there's a simple way to set the example.

It doesn't have to be glass or metal. Maybe there's a kind of fabric that lets light through but water runs down? What about plastic?
Is there a much better design but the concrete bumpouts need to be 50% longer?

and I think it's safe to say that this is something in the project there's the time to do right, not just quick.

it'll be harder with our sidewalk stops, but with that portland scene imagine if instead of two little seating areas covered they had made one big cover over the whole stop?

[bbqboy]

here is one of the light rail stations in PDX.

[taxi]

Sure will miss KC Air Filter blocking the street illegally.

The building section to the left of the truck looks like it could have a nice, open storefront for street-level retail once it's renovated. Heck, even the one with the truck could clean up nicely. The big, gray box to the right will need a little more work but it'll get there.

If I am not mistaken, the grey box on the right is owned by Belger and leased on a long term basis, tied to whatever the pertinent regulations are, and is used to store outrageous amounts of files containing info from tobacco lawsuits from one of our local mega law firms.
Tobacco kills.

[smh]

- kick-off of Final Design phase (which will take about 6 months and have some public involvement component)

if there's one thing with design, it need to be that there's some kind of stop cover that doesn't block sidewalk traffic and is bigger. The bus ones are functional but kind of ugly and max out quickly so you get a lot of people standing outside of them at busy stops. I don' know what's possible but I imagine there has to be a way to make them be more substantial in terms of what they cover. this is one area I've never seen a great solution done by any city I've been in.

Please just design the stations so that they look like the ones in PDX. Those are great and I think we have enough room for them.

Also, the streetcar is going to kick ass. No doubt!

I was thinking more like this, a curbside station: http://goo.gl/maps/5ViUf OR http://goo.gl/maps/NDzCq

[flyingember]

here is one of the light rail stations in PDX.

That's decent

[aknowledgeableperson]

But that appears to be in dedicated right-of-way.

[mean]

Yeah, light rail != streetcar. PDX's streetcars don't run on dedicated ROW, but I'm pretty sure the light rail (which I haven't ridden) does.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Yeah, light rail != streetcar. PDX's streetcars don't run on dedicated ROW, but I'm pretty sure the light rail (which I haven't ridden) does.

It does except downtown.

[flyingember]

there's an easy case to be made for doing something of that scale.

one of the points made endlessly, with good reason, is streetcars draw a ton more ridership than busses.

if we put the same size of places to sit/stand as we do for busses we'll be saying to the naysayers that we don't think that many people will ride, that we don't need to provide much space at a station. we're also telling the expected surge in ridership they get to stand in the rain, that we didn't plan well.

it's a little thing but when it comes time for expansion, people remember how they wet they got that one time because the cover was really tiny

2700 people per day is something like 20+ per hour during peak times (averaged out with 8 hours of usage, some stations may have 1-2 people for hours on end tops while others are busy only to/from lunch). on weekends it could be more.

to be big you have to think big

and the station covers are a very little part of it for planning but a huge part when it comes down to using the system

[bbqboy]

That's in front of the Convention center/Rose Garden stop. It hits the dedicated ROW just East of there. I like that one because I have stood under it before in the rain and it does a good job.
And I would bet your ridership is more than 20 folks per hour. Think big. You are correct.
This is as the LR comes off the Steel Bridge headed East. The pictured stop is about a block
from here.
http://goo.gl/maps/17str

[chingon]

I like the MAX "stations", especially the Troost line with the 2 and 2-half sides covered. Most transit stations are designed to try to both shelter people just enough but still discourage bums. I doubt there'll be (or needs to be) anything much more substantial that current MAX stops. The only thing I don't like about them is when they crowd the sidewalk like they do at Main/39th.

Honestly the design of transit stops all looks more or less the same to me. I don't really know what makes one "ugly" or not, but I think its pretty reasonable to expect a Streetcar stop to be pretty minimal.

I.E.:

[flyingember]

I was on a small section of Main today (9th to 13th) and there's one place where just a cover without the sides makes sense.

right in front of the CVS. There's huge columns that take out a lot of space.

I was off on my perspective though, the covers around 10th/Main hold a lot more than 6 people but that big doesn't fit everywhere

Drive down Grand around the end of the day for a place where some simple but large covers would be a good idea. the NW corner of 11th and grand specifically is a lot of people for no cover.


one interesting idea would be to put some big covers in and tie them into the planters being put around downtown. a simple metal trellis would add a nice touch.

[DaveKCMO]

the streetcar TDD board met today and imposed the sales tax and special assessments approved last week by voters.

[Pork Chop]

the streetcar TDD board met today and imposed the sales tax and special assessments approved last week by voters.

Does the increase in the sales tax start on 1/1/2013? Also, will the special assessment hit right at the start of year as well or will it come at the end of the year when we pay our regular property taxes?

[DaveKCMO]

the streetcar TDD board met today and imposed the sales tax and special assessments approved last week by voters.

Does the increase in the sales tax start on 1/1/2013? Also, will the special assessment hit right at the start of year as well or will it come at the end of the year when we pay our regular property taxes?

sales tax takes effect april 1. assessments take effect january 1, but you won't see them until your bill comes from jackson county at the end of the year. estimate your assessment here:

http://dnakcmo.org/streetcar.html

the additional parking assessment only applies to public surface lots (basically anything with an honor box).

[kboish]

the additional parking assessment only applies to public surface lots (basically anything with an honor box).

Interesting. Did not realize it was only public lots. Do you have an idea of which ones/what percentage are public?

[Pork Chop]

the streetcar TDD board met today and imposed the sales tax and special assessments approved last week by voters.

Does the increase in the sales tax start on 1/1/2013? Also, will the special assessment hit right at the start of year as well or will it come at the end of the year when we pay our regular property taxes?

sales tax takes effect april 1. assessments take effect january 1, but you won't see them until your bill comes from jackson county at the end of the year. estimate your assessment here:

http://dnakcmo.org/streetcar.html

the additional parking assessment only applies to public surface lots (basically anything with an honor box).

Thanks

[KCPowercat]

I'm sending a Christmas card to the deadbeat owner of the lot in front of KC Southern and tell them thanks for our streetcar.