KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[flyingember]

for easy reference, here's the Chastain plan that passed



it went right by Bartle Hall, Plaza, Westport, the Zoo and then to the airport. you can tell it was for tourists and not locals. it's northern end actually avoids the bulk of the population in that area by taking Waukomis and it's southern leg takes SW Trafficway which is the street designed to easily bypass midtown. in the tourist framework the stops make sense even if the route doesn't.

then look at the city's light rail plan from 2008. it had the same basic goal as the streetcar does. connect people to jobs via the Main St corridor.

obviously the streetcar is cheaper. so the same basic plan can be put in for a fraction the cost.

and that is why the streetcar won business approval when light rail didn't.
if the modern streetcar had been on the city's radar in 2006 I wonder if we'd have passed the 2008 plan using it at a lower cost

what's worth noting is the chastain plan had the regional attention getting stops the city plan never has

[Stockton]

^I think Chastain's route is mostly brilliant, except it should have gone straight down Main St in the RCP corridor. Do you realize that the Waukomis section followed the old interurban route? I think the idea there was the open land for development, which a lightrail line would have definitely brought, especially with that area being in great school districts. I even think lightrail could have turned around Prospect south of Brush Creek, which has plenty of land along it for development that even would have highway visibility. I also think it would have brought back the entire Blue Hills area, Paseo, Eastern 49/63, 63rd St, and basically most of inner SE KCMO. I don't see how the line wasn't for locals as well as tourists. It would have served as a great spine for the entire city and served and connected north of the river, RCP, and east of Troost, all while encourging more development inward.

[pash]

.

[Highlander]

It is, however, ridiculous that more than half of that route's length was to run north of the river through very sparsely populated areas. That routing was always obviously political, designed to get Northland voters on board and to fulfill the widely desired but completely impractical goal that it go to the airport.

One of the real benefits of the current "undemocratic", TDD-driven process is that we're much likely to get rail lines where they make the most sense as a means of transit instead of where they bring onthe most votes. ... Well, that may be a bit hopeful since we don't know what the process for expansion will look like, or where the money will come from if TDDs prove infeasible outside of downtown.

It was pretty impractical south of the river too. Through the west side of Union Station and western totally unpopulated Penn Valley Park avoiding the central part of DT and Crown Center. Chastain had too many agendas to take seriously. One of them was the destruction of Science City which his route necessitated. The project was also grossly out of scale with the meager financing source it provided.

If you are going to put in a short streetcar line as a starter, you could not ask for a better route than proposed in the one being voted on Tuesday.

[Pork Chop]

If you are going to put in a short streetcar line as a starter, you could not ask for a better route than proposed in the one being voted on Tuesday.

The tax increase for the Streetcar is being voted on by mail in ballot, which was just mailed this past week for those that requested one and are due back by Dec. 11th. Shortly thereafter we ought to know if both taxes have passed, then the bonds will be sold and we are in business for construction starting 2013.

[DaveKCMO]

if you live in scarritt renaissance, i'll be at your neighborhood association meeting at 6:30 tonight to discuss the proposed extension on independence avenue. meeting is at the KC museum.

[TfromKC]

If you are going to put in a short streetcar line as a starter, you could not ask for a better route than proposed in the one being voted on Tuesday.

The tax increase for the Streetcar is being voted on by mail in ballot, which was just mailed this past week for those that requested one and are due back by Dec. 11th. Shortly thereafter we ought to know if both taxes have passed, then the bonds will be sold and we are in business for construction starting 2013.

Dave-
This may seem like a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. Received my ballot. It has to be notarized. I work in KS and have a notary here in my office. Does it have to be notarized in MO by a MO notary? I know some states and issues are particular. Not hard to get notarized either way, but would love to just do it here at work and not have to run into a bank, etc.

Thanks!

[TfromKC]

If you are going to put in a short streetcar line as a starter, you could not ask for a better route than proposed in the one being voted on Tuesday.

The tax increase for the Streetcar is being voted on by mail in ballot, which was just mailed this past week for those that requested one and are due back by Dec. 11th. Shortly thereafter we ought to know if both taxes have passed, then the bonds will be sold and we are in business for construction starting 2013.

Dave-
This may seem like a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. Received my ballot. It has to be notarized. I work in KS and have a notary here in my office. Does it have to be notarized in MO by a MO notary? I know some states and issues are particular. Not hard to get notarized either way, but would love to just do it here at work and not have to run into a bank, etc.

Thanks!

[DaveKCMO]

any US notary will do! just make sure their commission isn't expired.

in the first election we even had someone overseas during the mail-in window, so we found out that most embassies have US notary publics on hand.

also, voting absentee by mail in missouri requires your ballot be notarized.

[TfromKC]

any US notary will do! just make sure their commission isn't expired.

in the first election we even had someone overseas during the mail-in window, so we found out that most embassies have US notary publics on hand.

also, voting absentee by mail in missouri requires your ballot be notarized.

Great, thanks! That will make it much easier!

My "Yes" vote should be in the mail soon!

[flyingember]

^I think Chastain's route is mostly brilliant, except it should have gone straight down Main St in the RCP corridor. Do you realize that the Waukomis section followed the old interurban route? I think the idea there was the open land for development, which a lightrail line would have definitely brought, especially with that area being in great school districts. I even think lightrail could have turned around Prospect south of Brush Creek, which has plenty of land along it for development that even would have highway visibility. I also think it would have brought back the entire Blue Hills area, Paseo, Eastern 49/63, 63rd St, and basically most of inner SE KCMO. I don't see how the line wasn't for locals as well as tourists. It would have served as a great spine for the entire city and served and connected north of the river, RCP, and east of Troost, all while encourging more development inward.

I am aware of the interurban route. It's still a stupid route.

A route north to the airport should go North Oak to Barry to Congress to Prairie View. Or something close to that.

It wouldn't have helped either end because it didn't connect well to jobs. As has been said, it avoided most of downtown

[flyingember]

It is, however, ridiculous that more than half of that route's length was to run north of the river through very sparsely populated areas.

this. look at the bus lines for the best rail transit lines

right now they mostly intersect at the former Antioch mall and metro north mall. Both have a park and ride lot today.
and both area areas needing redevelopment.

the problem?
it's 10 miles to Metro North and 8 miles to antioch independently. at a minimum it's ~12 miles to do both with both lines intersecting at Vivion/N Oak.

and it's a low value area today that would have trouble paying despite a huge number of business redevelopment opportunities along the lines

and the shortest option would avoid going to NKC Hospital/Cerner, one of the major employment centers in the city for total jobs in one place. A single station there would beat out parts of downtown for jobs density. Ignoring that area in phase 3 would look silly.

The same reason is why the Chastain plan is silly. It avoided areas with people AND jobs

[flyingember]

5 weeks to go

my prediction:

697 ballots.
~640 returned

80% yes on sales tax
65% yes on property tax

[DaveKCMO]

i predict you won't see much disparity between the two questions. just a hunch...

[kboish]

if you live in scarritt renaissance, i'll be at your neighborhood association meeting at 6:30 tonight to discuss the proposed extension on independence avenue. meeting is at the KC museum.

Dave, how did this meeting go? Is there a strategy set for how extensions will be approached? What is the general vibe you are getting for the different extensions?

[DaveKCMO]

the meeting went surprisingly well. i was expecting more heat, but people were generally supportive (or quiet about opposition). it's a tough sell on independence avenue right now because they're getting their CID off the ground.

no strategy yet. right now it's important that neighborhoods signal their interest so that the studies get funded in 2013. if you have any others you want me to talk to let me know!

[flyingember]

i predict you won't see much disparity between the two questions. just a hunch...

perhaps. but there's a lot of people who like sales taxes over property taxes and might vote no just for that.

to show they support it with sales taxes but don't want property taxes.

of course, not that I expect that to derail the plan no matter the amount

[Highlander]

If you are going to put in a short streetcar line as a starter, you could not ask for a better route than proposed in the one being voted on Tuesday.

The tax increase for the Streetcar is being voted on by mail in ballot, which was just mailed this past week for those that requested one and are due back by Dec. 11th. Shortly thereafter we ought to know if both taxes have passed, then the bonds will be sold and we are in business for construction starting 2013.

Kind of bummer about the wait. It's going to be like the forgotten ballot measure when it gets announced.

[DaveKCMO]

not around here...

[flyingember]

not around here...

the networks will follow anything the city does and the city won't let a win sit untold

if it wasn't going to be December I'd say the city should have a big outdoor party with a win.


maybe hold off on that and hold some kind of simple no extra workforce needed event along main in coordination with first fridays during construction. have a focus on Main St brochure or something that's available across downtown throughout with special hours on first friday's
do it as a thank you to business owners to help drive business to their stores while cars can't get there easily.

then hold a big event the night before "revenue" service. place all the vehicles along the line at strategic points and open them up to "tour"
make it a big deal evening with state and federal officials, honored guests from cities nearby and such
music
a historic car show with vehicles only from before the last line was shut down (people who go to car shows are exactly who you want to see the transit system)
get P&L to do something special for meals
Union station puts on a big train exhibit.
fireworks
bring out regional businesses. like invite sprint, cerner, Childern's Mercy and such to have big booths promoting KC institutions
real estate companies can promote kansas city living
have a tent with KC history displays
speeches of course
regional plans for roads, trains, bike trails and stuff on display

the ASG was KC's party for the whole country.
make this be KC's party for KC. we've done a lot for downtown and never formally showed it off.

and then the next day formally open the system for service.