KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Gotta love a tax system that punishes people for improving their property and making the community better.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
'Merica!mean wrote:Gotta love a tax system that punishes people for improving their property and making the community better.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I don't think DST and CC would fit your description.chrizow wrote:welcome to property ownership in the big city. we have far too many property owners whose entire M.O. and business model is based on downtown being completely dead.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
i dunno...
crown center is built mostly as a walled garden, a product of the anti-urban bias of it's heyday. oodles of free parking and skywalks sap any remaining street life beyond children playing in the fountain. just walk around crown center's perimeter for proof. nothin' but crickets, assuming you can find a sidewalk to stand on.
DST may be pro downtown, but their actions have been pretty selfish regarding transit... to the point of being detrimental to just about every proposal ever made. wyandotte is NOT the best routing for downtown, which is why it's rarely in any initial list of options. the people and job density is on main. the development opportunities and widest ROW is on grand. that is why they are always top choices. loops and couplets are confusing. do they think they want downtown to be completely dead? probably not, but from an outsider's perspective it certainly appears they are acting in their own interest above all else.
crown center is built mostly as a walled garden, a product of the anti-urban bias of it's heyday. oodles of free parking and skywalks sap any remaining street life beyond children playing in the fountain. just walk around crown center's perimeter for proof. nothin' but crickets, assuming you can find a sidewalk to stand on.
DST may be pro downtown, but their actions have been pretty selfish regarding transit... to the point of being detrimental to just about every proposal ever made. wyandotte is NOT the best routing for downtown, which is why it's rarely in any initial list of options. the people and job density is on main. the development opportunities and widest ROW is on grand. that is why they are always top choices. loops and couplets are confusing. do they think they want downtown to be completely dead? probably not, but from an outsider's perspective it certainly appears they are acting in their own interest above all else.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Have you ever heard Bill Lucas? He scares me how old world he is about KC.
Dst I agree somewhat.
Dst I agree somewhat.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Considering CC and DST will just pass along the increased tax burden in the form of increased rent, I think the question is whether tenants will pay the higher rents.aknowledgeableperson wrote:
It wouldn't be a question of the benefit alone but more like is the benefit worth the increased cost? Does CC receive benefits worth $500,000 a year? Does DST see benefits worth $1,000,000 a year?
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
That's fair enough, and I can see why they might feel slighted given everything they must feel they have done for the city. That said, I've walked around QH a lot and it's not exactly a hub of vibrancy. I appreciate what they're trying to do, but I don't think they've been doing it very well. And that fortress on SW Blvd is an abomination.DaveKCMO wrote:probably not, but from an outsider's perspective it certainly appears they are acting in their own interest above all else.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Thanks for the info Dave...glad to hear they were involved early. Sounds like typical stuff.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
I read the KC Star article on this; the opposition is not surprising since that's what Kansas Citians do. They oppose anything progressive. It's kind of hard to argue taxation without representation, however, when these businesses can and probably will spend tons of money on negative advertising and have an influence far beyond their own vote and a hundred others.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
The brilliant part of this whole thing is that while negative campaigning would likely be effective in dissuading voters in the suburban hinterlands of KCMO, I get the sense that the downtown core residents know what they want and are determined to get it. While I may not feel that this streetcar plan is the best possible plan for fostering long-term viable transit in KC, I have to admit that it is the right plan at the right time, counting on the right people to vote for it. It almost feels like progress has finally outsmarted the powers-that-be, and while what we end up with may not be the ideal transit panacea, it is the only feasible solution in the here-and-now. The embodiment of realpolitik.
For that I can only say thanks, Dave.
For that I can only say thanks, Dave.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
agreed again mean. The people choosing to live downtown will not be dissuaded by idle landowners (or even usual DT boosters...ie DST and CC). People living downtown want a vibrant urban experience and transit is part of that. I think most people recognize this is their only realistic shot for the next 10-25 years.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
great post, i agree completely.mean wrote:The brilliant part of this whole thing is that while negative campaigning would likely be effective in dissuading voters in the suburban hinterlands of KCMO, I get the sense that the downtown core residents know what they want and are determined to get it. While I may not feel that this streetcar plan is the best possible plan for fostering long-term viable transit in KC, I have to admit that it is the right plan at the right time, counting on the right people to vote for it. It almost feels like progress has finally outsmarted the powers-that-be, and while what we end up with may not be the ideal transit panacea, it is the only feasible solution in the here-and-now. The embodiment of realpolitik.
For that I can only say thanks, Dave.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
you are quite welcome. i play to win.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Agreed. It seems like the Mayor is staking his administration on this and making it his signature achievement, and he seems to have many major players on board. Sure there will be opposition, but the focus and momentum seems to be there.chrizow wrote:great post, i agree completely.mean wrote:The brilliant part of this whole thing is that while negative campaigning would likely be effective in dissuading voters in the suburban hinterlands of KCMO, I get the sense that the downtown core residents know what they want and are determined to get it. While I may not feel that this streetcar plan is the best possible plan for fostering long-term viable transit in KC, I have to admit that it is the right plan at the right time, counting on the right people to vote for it. It almost feels like progress has finally outsmarted the powers-that-be, and while what we end up with may not be the ideal transit panacea, it is the only feasible solution in the here-and-now. The embodiment of realpolitik.
For that I can only say thanks, Dave.
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Maybe it has been explained already, but would the second phase of this plan continue on grand through crown center and reconnect on main?
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
that depends entirely on finding political support in midtown. in a way, it's been a really good to take this 2 miles at a time so we can focus on handling each little constituency directly (instead of trying to please huge swaths and multiple council districts all at once).Pork Chop wrote:Maybe it has been explained already, but would the second phase of this plan continue on grand through crown center and reconnect on main?
i encourage midtowners to organize on their own and develop grassroots support. based on previous efforts, i wouldn't bet going south is the very next phase. i would bet on west bottoms or north kansas city (or east if jackson county picks an alternative that uses modern streetcars).
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
i might have missed it, but can you explain why/how midtown is so "provincial" with regard to the streetcar? are midtowners anti-transit? is the business community anti-transit?
i would think that extending the streetcar through midtown would be the most natural next phase, not the west bottoms or NKC. what would be the purpose of a west bottoms line at this point?
i would think that extending the streetcar through midtown would be the most natural next phase, not the west bottoms or NKC. what would be the purpose of a west bottoms line at this point?
Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
past voting patterns and organized opposition.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
Brilliant!mean wrote:progress has finally outsmarted the powers-that-be.
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Re: KCMO Downtown Streetcar
The Federal Reserve Bank has stacked up a lot of cash as part of their redevelopment of Main Street. This is part of the 'TIF District' when they built their new building. Why not get them to use some of these funds in coordination with MainCor to make Main Street the first extension? This would seem to bypass the neighborhoods altogether. If they were smart, they would have spent the money they spent curbs and lightpoles on a Main Street streetcar line.DaveKCMO wrote:based on previous efforts, i wouldn't bet going south is the very next phase. i would bet on west bottoms or north kansas city (or east if jackson county picks an alternative that uses modern streetcars).