Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Transportation topics in KC

How will you vote on Chastain's LRT proposal?

I will vote Yes!
81
56%
I will vote No!
39
27%
I don't vote!
8
6%
I don't live in KCMO
17
12%
 
Total votes: 145

JBmidtown
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by JBmidtown » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:36 pm

Everyone on this board needs to push for Question 2 to pass over Question 1 or we're going to put KC's progress back by decades. Get the word out

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16610
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:08 pm

chastain had a presser this morning at union station. one reporter (mahoney) showed up. needless to say, he was taken aback that KCRTA endorsed question 2.

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by pash » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:57 pm

.
Last edited by pash on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

JBmidtown
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by JBmidtown » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:41 pm

Push it push it push it. I'm going to try to influence my circle of friends to go out and vote yes on Question 2 (no on Question 1) and I think that's something we should all be aiming for.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:19 pm

The wildcard was the minimum wage item. At one point I expected that would drive much larger turnout than normal.

It can't change wages right now and after St. Louis saw theirs dropped that probably deflated east side efforts. There hasn't been any media around it for sure.
And this probably does the same in the northland

I wonder if this election will come down to regular and position voters? With two transit items and the easy piggybacking with the TDD election I bet visibility to vote against Q1 is high.

But like all elections, it comes down to turnout. I expect the east side turnout to drive the results.

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9015
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by Highlander » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:03 am

DaveKCMO wrote:chastain had a presser this morning at union station. one reporter (mahoney) showed up. needless to say, he was taken aback that KCRTA endorsed question 2.
I guess I see the strategy - A bit like employing Stalin to defeat Hitler. Regardless, it will not pass and I suspect it will not even be close. Not sure if an endorsement was all that good of an idea. The Chastain "brand" is about as good as mud in KC.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:05 am

Kind of amazing that the star would make a map and miss one entire line on it (historic NE) -and- miss half the destinations on another line (to the zoo) -and- the only listed destination on a third (to the northland)

It's like they didn't bother to find out what the proposed route actually is

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 53387.html

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16610
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:01 am

No worries. Nothing will be built on Broadway.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:55 am

Highlander wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:chastain had a presser this morning at union station. one reporter (mahoney) showed up. needless to say, he was taken aback that KCRTA endorsed question 2.
I guess I see the strategy - A bit like employing Stalin to defeat Hitler. Regardless, it will not pass and I suspect it will not even be close. Not sure if an endorsement was all that good of an idea. The Chastain "brand" is about as good as mud in KC.
It's firmly going to come down to turnout in each part of the city.

If the east side turns out to get the minimum wage item passed or vice versa for the farther northland as a symbolic gesture is the big wildcard of the election. These groups seem more likely to vote against the train.

A strong west of Main and southern northland turnout it could pass.

Either way, a tight result seems more likely than in the past. This plan more closely mimics the 2006 citywide election that passed than any other in recent years and uses the key word "streetcar". I feel a 52-48 win is more likely than a 60-40 loss though by no means is it clear to win.

JBmidtown
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by JBmidtown » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:09 pm

Post in every community FB group or forum. Flood social media. Tell all your friends. Make flyers. It's all last minute but we can make a big push that would get streetcar/transit supporters out.

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9015
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by Highlander » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:59 pm

flyingember wrote:
Highlander wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:chastain had a presser this morning at union station. one reporter (mahoney) showed up. needless to say, he was taken aback that KCRTA endorsed question 2.
I guess I see the strategy - A bit like employing Stalin to defeat Hitler. Regardless, it will not pass and I suspect it will not even be close. Not sure if an endorsement was all that good of an idea. The Chastain "brand" is about as good as mud in KC.
It's firmly going to come down to turnout in each part of the city.

If the east side turns out to get the minimum wage item passed or vice versa for the farther northland as a symbolic gesture is the big wildcard of the election. These groups seem more likely to vote against the train.

A strong west of Main and southern northland turnout it could pass.

Either way, a tight result seems more likely than in the past. This plan more closely mimics the 2006 citywide election that passed than any other in recent years and uses the key word "streetcar". I feel a 52-48 win is more likely than a 60-40 loss though by no means is it clear to win.
Chastain's proposal doesn't stand a chance. You are giving people way too much credit to think they would actually consider the merits of the proposal when Chastain is involved (the merits are not that great by the way - if it wasn't for Question 1 - I know I'd be voting no if I were there). But Chastain's name is attached and hence it will fail and fail miserably. It's pretty much that simple.

Frankly, I think Question 1 passes. It's a "No skin off my back" proposal that people will vote for without really thinking it through. That's the problem with KC's petition process. It has devolved into a mob rule kind of approach to politics. There's a reason we set up a representative democracy and that reason is being played out in KC and making the founding fathers look pretty smart right now. Don't like something? Get a couple of thousand naive people who just want to get on with their Saturday visit to the plaza to sign something and have you leave them alone and anyone can wreak all kinds of havoc even in a city of nearly half a million people.

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4548
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by earthling » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:37 am

^Agree KC has a mob rules problem. Too easy for unsound petitions to get action.

Q1 is worded oddly, some who don't follow issues closely may misinterpret...
https://www.kceb.org/useruploads/Sample ... ebsite.pdf

And Q2 could pass hugely by pro-transit who don't know the background or impact. It doesn't have Chastain's name on it. The success of streetcar has turned many anti-transit into pro-transit.

Lower income/service industry turnout could be high because of Q3 minimum wage item. Many may tend to be pro-transit but also many don't want higher sales taxes. If Q3 passes, will be interesting to see if Q2 does.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:29 am

Here's the number of riders by council district again. It's people who respond to surveys but I figure voters are more likely to be respond.

4th: 60%
6th: 48%
1st and 2nd combined: 42.5%
3rd: 29%
5th: 25%

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:06 am

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mq75eds6fyob2 ... .docx?dl=0

Feel free to use. Order of places is on purpose, want to stress east side connections.

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9015
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by Highlander » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:35 am

earthling wrote:^Agree KC has a mob rules problem. Too easy for unsound petitions to get action.

Q1 is worded oddly, some who don't follow issues closely may misinterpret...
https://www.kceb.org/useruploads/Sample ... ebsite.pdf
Interesting and very misleading wording. I would contend that by the wording on the ballot, the current transit district streetcar expansion satisfies the demand.

The wording is so misleading and disingenuous (the entire plan is disingenuous if not outright cynical) it seems that the results could be challenged in court. I am surprised the ballot wording isn't being challenged in court already.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:44 am

Q2 wording is worse in the opposite direction.

It leaves off one of the four routes up for election and it's also a bus system expansion but that's not mentioned in the title
imagine going to vote and not even seeing the corridor that would go by your house

Q1 I see it now. It leaves off the word "citywide"

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9015
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by Highlander » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:55 am

flyingember wrote:Q2 wording is worse in the opposite direction.


Q1 I see it now. It leaves off the word "citywide"
Absolutely is the issue. Misleading and hopelessly flawed. It is an omission that entirely changes the apparent intent of the question.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:02 pm

The word omission is a huge deal.

For the Chastain plan now I see the lawsuit opening. Not the idea he'll sue if it passes, but if it fails. It's completely fair to argue the voters didn't get a fair description of the plan because of that omission. It makes the plan look more expensive and people clearly base the value of a tax around what it does.

You can see in flyer I made I included a lot of destinations from the ordinance because it looks like a big plan that way.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6815
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:32 pm

Much better map and still doesn't hit all the spots in the ordinance. Amazing it's so hard to draw a line between points

I give credit they tried this time and they used the ordinance text, not the ballot text

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 69957.html

User avatar
normalthings
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by normalthings » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:53 pm

Failing in Platte and Clay. Q1 passing in bothn

Post Reply